Posts in Jan 1998

To: cac@emwave.net

——————————

From: Iron Foot
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 01:05:42 -0500 (est)
Subject: CAC_Mail: Pop Culture: Amistad

Happy New Year, all!

This is not necessarily Asian, but it is Christian. 🙂 I finally
got out to see Amistad this week and it has probably the finest 3 minute
sequence on the Gospel that I have ever seen – whether Christian or non.
Given the setting of African Slave Prisoners fighting for their freedom,
it was quite poignant to see the Gospel story interpreted through the eyes
of desparate men.

The rest of the movie was fine, the performance by Houson very
good, but the part that brought me to near-tears was the telling of the
story of Jesus.

Take care and enjoy!

Elliott

PS: Ken Tom, send me some Email, okay?
ironfoot@dorsai.org

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From: jro6@juno.com (Jonathan c Ro)
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:24:15 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Re: Reaching the unchurched

Dear Ted,
Thanks for your response. I’m glad to hear from you. It sound
exciting what God is doing in your church. Yes, Saddleback has been a
great influence on us as well. In fact, Saddleback’s principles have been
more applicable to our situation than Willowcreek’s. I forgot to mention
that we actually do have contemporary “seeker-sensitive” services during
the rest of the year, mixing verse-by-verse and verse-with-verse
preaching. It’s during Christmas and Easter that we are more
evangelistic, or “seeker-targeted”. Sounds like you are a careful reader
of Rick’s book in making that distinction between “seeker-sensitive” and
“seeker-driven.”
To answer Sze-kar’s question about the differences between
Willowcreek and Saddleback, let me throw in my 2 cents worth. In
describing Willowcreek, I don’t like the term “seeker-driven” but
“seeker-targeted.” “Seeker-driven” gives the impression that evangelism
drives the whole church at the expenses of the other purposes. Some
churches who have copied Willowcreek’s model have gone overboard with
evangelism and would be label “Seeker-driven.” But I believe Willowcreek
is biblically balanced, so I would label them “seeker-targeted”, meaning
their starting point, Sunday morning service, is geared toward
unbelievers, as their “primary customer.” Thus, Sunday morning is not a
worship service for the already convinced. It is an evangelistic event.
They are doing a modern day version of a Billy Graham crusade every
Sunday morning with creative arts and drama. (By the way, the drama gets
all the press) But they don’t have seeker services at the expense of
building up the believers. The worship services for believers are during
the mid-week. Thus they are “seeker-targeted” not “seeker-driven.” It
takes extremely mature Christians to give up their best time slot to
reach their lost friends while reserving a less convenient time for
worship and feeding time. To me that is the ultimate expression of
sacrifice and “worship”.
Saddleback’s Sunday service is a worship service for believers,
but it is highly energetic and contemporary (seeker sensitive). Part of
their evangelistic strategy is have their believers bring seekers to
witness an authentic worship experience and to listen to relevant topical
messages (verse-with-verse preaching). They realize that moving people
towards God is a process. Thus, their Sunday morning worship service is
the first step in moving people from the community to the crowd to the
congregation to the committed and to the core. Their Christian Education
program also moves people towards a process of deeper commitment (from
Membership 101, to Maturity 201, to Ministry 301, to Mission 401.) They
also have midweek services for more mature believers where they
experience verse-by-verse preaching (more like traditional expository
style).
Here is a brief evaluation of the two churches. Saddleback’s
principles will be more applicable to most churches since it’s DNA
structure is still believers oriented. The starting point is the
believer and one of the “duties” of believers is to do evangelism.
They do evangelism very relevantly, seeker-sensitively. However,
evangelism is on the back end, while in Willowcreek’s case, evangelism is
on the front end. Willowcreek’s strategy and entry point starts with the
lost and moves them towards fully devoted disciples. They are not making
evangelism the totality of their ministry, but their starting point. A
good analogy to describe Willowcreek would be to describe an assembly
line in a car factory. Most churches start with an already made car
(believer) and their job is to paint it, clean it and wax it, so it will
sell (evangelism). Willowcreek starts with the nuts and bolts (sinner)
and moves him/her down the assembly line (salvation) finally out the door
(fully devoted disciple). It sounds like what Jesus did in his ministry
here on earth. Wasn’t Jesus’ starting point the lost also? Didn’t he say
“I have come not to call the righteous but sinners” and “It is not the
healthy that needs the doctor but the sick”?
To reduce Willowcreek to a church that just does dramas I think over
simplifies them.
In conclusion, both strategies are effective in their respective
situations. Saddleback will reach a certain kind of seeker, probably one
that is closer to being converted (-1 or -2 on the Engel chart).
Willowcreek will be able to reach a different kind of seeker, probably
the more hard-core pagan (-4,-5 Engel chart).
Anyway, having said all that, we need to be careful in how we
apply these principles since each of our context in ministry is different
(especially in an Asian American context). A good leader will be able to
determine which principles to apply and at what time to apply them. A
good leader will also not superimpose a model over his congregation just
because it’s the lastest and most progressive model. There is a danger
for young pastors who go to these conferences. They come back to their
congregation with new “technology” and say to their members “follow me”.
The problem, many of us are not Bill Hybels or Rick Warren. I’m even
guilty of this at times and I have to watch myself. But I’ve seen
pastors do this to other churches as well. The response I hear from the
laity to the young pastor is this: “I can follow a leader like Bill
Hybels, or Rick Warren, but I’m not sure if I can trust you.” The point,
none of these models work if there isn’t that intangible element in the
leader, being spirit-filled, having integrity and character. Enough said
for now. I’d love to hear any comments about my evaluation. Those who
have studied the models, please correct me if I’m wrong. In Christ, Jon
Ro

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From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 00:40:13 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Re: Greetings

Dear Joe:

Thanks for your words of appreciation! May you also have
a blessed New Year!

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————–
On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 23:23:22 EST JWongCDI writes:
>Dear J. Chang;
>In case others have not, I want to thank you for the Christmas
>Alphabet.
>Those types of contributions make my 1997 Christmas a bit more
>special.
>
>Hope your New Year holds many exciting possibilities with our Lord.
>
>Joe
>

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From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 00:47:13 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: FYI: Women of Hope Conference

Dear CACers:

FYI, especially for the sisters in Christ. For the brothers in Christ,
please pass the word around.

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————-
Women of Hope: Engaging the 21st Century
An International, Pro-Life, Non-Denominational Event For Women By Women

March 13 & 14, 1998 (MUST BE REGISTERED BY JAN 19, 1998 – SEE BELOW FOR
DETAILS)

Embassy Suites Hotel – at KCI Airport
Kansas City, MO

$95.00 For Registration (Includes 3 Meals)

CONFERENCE GOALS

Following the admonition that older women are to teach younger women
(found in Titus 2:3-5), the goals of the conference are:

TO INFORM Christian women about life issues;

TO PROVIDE practical resources for making decisions about issues
involving
the beginning and end of life;

TO MOTIVATE women to be positive role models within their particular
faith
community;

TO UTILIZE the experience, knowledge and wisdom of “older” Christian
women
in mentoring women who are “younger” in age, experience or knowledge.

It is women who are most affected by abortion and sexually transmitted
diseases. It is women who are most involved in caring for elderly parents
and in making end of life decisions. It is women who are the primary
educators of children and providers of nursing care. It is women who are
most directly involved in crisis pregnancy work and in post-abortion
counseling.

However, because many women are in churches that do not have a pro-life
position, and because a whole generation of women has been raised to
believe that abortion is a right instead of a wrong, WOMEN OF HOPE is
designed to equip Christian women to engage the 21st Century as leaders
in
the areas of life issues.

Special speakers include Dr. Jean Garton, Keynote Speaker, who will
address the topic, “Challenges of the 21st Century.” Ms. Kristi Hamrick
from the Family Research Council, will give the concluding address
“Accepting the Challenges of the 21st Century.” Workshops are entitled
“The Abigail Woman,” “The Esther Woman,” “The Eunice Woman,” “The
Proverbs
Woman,” “The Virtuous Woman,” and “The Woman at the Well.” Two plenary
sessions will feature panels addressing the topics, “The Tradition of
Hope,” and “Stories of Hope.” Another plenary session will feature, “The
Renaissance Woman: Reawakening Woman to Her Roots, her Roles and Her
Rewards.” A Marketplace will be available for purchasing items unique to
this conference, and an open forum is scheduled for participants’
questions and comments.

Interested women should visit the Women of Hope’s Web Site
(http://www.women-of-hope.org/) to find more information about
registration, including the registration form. Due to space, the
conference will be open to only 450 participants. The deadline for
registration will be January 19, 1998.

COMMITTEE MEMBERS

Dr. Jean Garton, Conference Director, from Benton, Arkansas: Dr. Garton
is the author of “Who Broke The Baby?”; has produced over 1,000 two and
one half minute radio spots called “Speaking For Life”; and is the
founder
and former national president of Lutherans For Life, Inc. Dr. Garton
speaks all over the world.

Jean Heise, Conference Coordinator, from Rockford, Illinois: Jean Heise
has served on the National Board of Directors of Lutherans For Life and
as
Education Director of Lutherans For Life of Illinois. She debates the
issues of abortion and euthanasia on radio talk shows and conducts
seminars on life issues for clergy, educators and laypersons.

Jeanne Mackay, Conference Chairwoman, from Lenexa, Kansas: Jeanne Mackay
is the founder and former state president of Lutherans For Life of
Missouri and has established four local chapters in cities where she has
lived. Jeanne served as chairperson of the Lutherans For Life National
Convention in 1994 and has served on the National Board of Lutherans For
Life.

Miriam Krause, On-Site Coordinator, from Overland Park, Kansas Jewell
Rapier, Treasurer Registrar, from Benton, Arkansas Eden Keefe, Publicity
Director, from Olathe, Kansas Candace Mueller, Speakers/Workshops
Coordinator, from Ewing, New Jersey Marilyn Haaland, Artist/Banners/Logo,
from Seal Beach, California

– —
Tell a friend about the Pro-Life Infonet. Pro-life folks can sign up to
receive the Pro-Life Infonet by visiting
http://www.prolife.org/ultimate/infonetfaq.html

——————————

From: Marfluctus
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:51:09 EST
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Re: Reaching the unchurched

Sze-Kar,

The Saddleback Model can be studied from Rick Warren’s book “Purpose Driven
Church”. I know Bill Hybel also wrote a book on his Willowcreek model but I
do not remember the title. I am sure someone in the CAC net can provide the
title. In fact, I think he has already started re-engineering his church for
the X-generation and there may be more books to come from him. If you attend
any kind church growth conference, these are two models being brought up the
most often. As far as Vineyard is concerned, I am not sure whether there is a
book but my understanding is that it is highly charismatic and have some
wonderful music/worship and I am sure that someone on CAC can provide more
details.

Hai-Tao
Chinese Baptist Church of Orange County

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From: Marfluctus
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:25:30 EST
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ

I am not a pastor but went to enough church growth and Sunday School growth
conferences with my pastor (I am the Sunday School Director at my church) and
I think someone’s analogy of three things that you have to do is a good
complement of what Bill Leong has just provided.
1. You have to bring them in.
Visitation works but invitation by friend is the way my Sunday School class
grew. (And these are the two major modes how new comers come to our church!)
2. You have to keep them there.
A seeker sensitive service will help but it is the people that makes the
difference. If your body of believers project care/friendliness/love/welcome
for a new comer, they are likely to stay.
3. You have to grow them.
They got to have a reason to keep on coming back. If there is a reason for
their coming back, e.g. Christian growth classes, bible study that makes the
bible relevant to their life, service projects,…. Something’s got to tuck
the new comer’s heart to say that it is worth my time to go.

There are a lot growing churches that do not necessarily employ the
Willowcreek or Saddleback models. Notice that these are not targeted to ABC
per-se but I think that these are the most fundamentals of how to grow a
church. It works regardless of culture. Sometimes, we focus too much on the
“ABC” issue, I do agree that it is a real issue but growing a church usually
requires the fundamentals to be solid before you address the specific – such
as the ABC issue, how to make it more attractive to ABC’s. Lastly, I think it
always goes down to the issue: know your “customer” (target group). It is
often said that churches need to learn from the Supermarkets of the world. I
tested and it is true. You go to your local supermarket and you can almost
tell by what is offered on the shelf what is your neighborhood ethnic mix. In
my neighborhood, Orange County CA, you invariable find both Mexican food
section and Asian food section in your regular neighborhood supermaket. In
the Price Club Or Price Costco, you can buy tofu, soybean milk, soy
sauce,wanton skin, and a few “Asian” food items because the manager knows that
his customers base has a large Asian population. The supermarket managers
knows how to cater to their customers and our supermarkets open late and have
a lot packaged food so you can just throw into the oven/wok/fyring pan and
have a “home cooked meal” in the shortest possible time for the working
couples in the neighborhood. This is even true for our local Chinese/Asian
supermarkets. I also noticed that it is those supermarkets that are slowest
in responding to the customer close the most often! I really do think
churches can learn from supermarkets.

Just a thought from a layman.

Hai-Tao Wang
Chinese Baptist of Orange County

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From: gdot@juno.com (G Ottoson)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:42:28 -0700
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ

On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:25:30 EST Marfluctus writes:
>I am not a pastor..churches can learn from supermarkets.
>
>Hai-Tao Wang

Makes sense to me, Hai-Tao!

Bro. G, headin’ to the grocery with the stereo on 🙂

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From: drwong1@juno.com (Richard L Wong)
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 04:02:24 EST
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Christmas as “somber celebration”

>
>Brother David Wong’s point about ABCs’ shortage of bedside manners may
>even
>spill over in application to graveside. This morning’s funeral
>service and
>burial was for the paternal grandmother of one of our sisters. It was
>again
>unfamiliar territory. Though the family requested that our pastor
>officiate, the family and their friends carried out traditional
>”non-Christian” formalities. Imagine my chagrin when I was informed
>afterwards by a fellow parishioner, that when I had “followed” the
>family in
>turning away from the casket as it was lowered into the ground that
>this was
>actually participating in a superstitious notion of turning away from
>evil
>spirits. Chalk up another one to an “ignorant ABC!” Blew that chance
>to
>witness.
>
>Was it Brother Peter Szto that offered up a study regarding Asian
>weddings?
> Anyone else assembled material on Asian funerals?
>
>Somberly,
>Stephen

Steve:

Your question about Asian funerals raises a very good question that’s
been circling in my mind. I recently attended a funeral for one of my
classmates who died somewhat unexpectedly. He was a Christian, and so
are his sisters and brother-in-law, but his parents have remained
Buddhists. At the funeral, although our Pastor officiated, many of the
people (including his siblings and numerous Chinese church friends) went
through the traditional Buddhist rituals — the processional with the
decedent’s portrait at the head, lighting incense sticks, bowing three
times at the gravesite, etc. When it was my turn to pay my final
respects at the gravesite, I simply knelt and said a brief prayer for his
soul and for his parents’ salvation. I didn’t know if I should have
bowed three times out of deference to his parents, or something more
demonstrative like genuflecting to demonstrate a “Christian-type”
response, but I wanted to do a little something that reflected our
Christian faith without offending the family. Kind of a sensitive topic,
wouldn’t you agree? What would you have done?

Richard

——————————

From: “DJ Chuang”
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:24:03 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: about CAC

FAQ: Frequently Asked Questions about CAC

Updated: 5 Jan 98

[This is a monthly posting; * marks What’s New]

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Q: When was CAC started and automated?

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CAC used to be a manually propagated carbon copy email, but was
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– —
*

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:23:13 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: FYI: HP & Bill Gates

To All Concerned CACers:

FYI… Issues to consider…

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————-
Subject: Hewlett-Packard and Bill Gates to support Planned Parenthood

Foundations increase financial support for abortion performance/advocacy

The Hewlett-Packard Foundation is planning to significantly increase its
contribution for abortion performance/advocacy through Planned
Parenthood.
The increase will put the foundation’s total support for programs
sponsored by the International Planned parenthood Federation above that
of
the Ford, Rockefeller and MacArthur foundations.

Bill Gates’s father, who runs that family’s foundation, expects to
increase the foundation’s efforts in international abortion performance
and promotion as well. The elder Gates was active with Planned Parenthood
in the 1960s.

Source: Planned Parenthood Federation of America

– —
Infonet List is a daily compilation of pro-life news and educational
information. To subscribe, send the message “subscribe” to:
infonet-list-request@prolife.org. To unsubscribe send the message
“unsubscribe” to the same address. For more pro-life information visit
the Ultimate Pro-Life Resource List at http://www.prolife.org/ultimate
and for questions or additional information, email
infonet-mod@prolife.org

——————————

From: Sze-kar Wan
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 16:09:44 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Re: Reaching the unchurched

Took some time off and am just now returning to my work.

Thank you, Hai-tao and Jonathan, for your references. I will look them
up. Have others tried these church-growth models, or modified versions
thereof, on AsiAm churches?

Warmly,
Sze-kar

——————————

From: Sze-kar Wan
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 16:23:54 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ

Marfluctus wrote:
>
> 1. You have to bring them in…
> 2. You have to keep them there…
> 3. You have to grow them…

These are helpful, practical observations, Hai-tao. Thank you. I
suspect #2 and #3 are interrelated. People will continue to come if
they grow. My church, at least in the past, had trouble in precisely
these two points. We are hoping our new initiatives will begin to
address them.

> It works regardless of culture. Sometimes, we focus too much on “ABC” issues..
> …
> …know your “customer” (target group).

Are these two points somewhat inconsistent? If the customers turn out
to be ABCs and would like to see their issues addressed, shouldn’t the
church address said issues? If doufu is what the customers want, you
would selll it, right? So, how do you distinguish between the
“fundamentals” of a church and its doufu? Better, how do you package
your “fundamentals” like doufu?

Just some ecclesial groceries for thought.

Sze-kar

——————————

From: “James Wong”
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:58:09 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Re: Reaching the unchurched

A modified version of Willow Creek for AsiAm that I’m currently working on
will focus more on building authentic relationships and creating a friendly
and welcoming atmosphere rather than slick and polished entertainment.
Willow Creek has a “leave the seekers alone and allow them anonymity” type
of approach but my observation has been that Asians are drawn to other
Asians that are friendly and approachable. This expectation of
friendliness is heightened when they visit a predominantly Asian church.

Saddleback’s approach in intentional friendliness should be applicable
within an Asian context. Saddleback actually create a greeters ministry by
having friendly personalities situated at strategic locations to just say
hi to people without presenting any agenda. That way, people would feel
“welcomed” but not “watched”( using Saddleback lingo).

James

– ———-
> From: Sze-kar Wan
> To: CAC
> Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Re: Reaching the unchurched
> Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 4:09 PM
>
> Took some time off and am just now returning to my work.
>
> Thank you, Hai-tao and Jonathan, for your references. I will look them
> up. Have others tried these church-growth models, or modified versions
> thereof, on AsiAm churches?
>
> Warmly,
> Sze-kar

——————————

From: “James Wong”
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 13:10:35 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ

> Are these two points somewhat inconsistent? If the customers turn out
> to be ABCs and would like to see their issues addressed, shouldn’t the
> church address said issues? If doufu is what the customers want, you
> would selll it, right? So, how do you distinguish between the
> “fundamentals” of a church and its doufu? Better, how do you package
> your “fundamentals” like doufu?

What are some major issues confronting ABCs that the church needs to
address?

I’ve been trying hard on this one but still couldn’t come up with anything
major that can
be considered distinctly ABC. Anyone wanna try?

BTW, my Mac crashed and I just got a new IBM. If you’ve sent me anything
over
the last two weeks, it’s probably lost in the wreckage.

James

>
> Just some ecclesial groceries for thought.
>
> Sze-kar

——————————

From: Sze-kar Wan
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:01:42 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ

James Wong wrote:
>
> What are some major issues confronting ABCs that the church needs to
> address?
>
> I’ve been trying hard on this one but still couldn’t come up with anything
> major that can be considered distinctly ABC. Anyone wanna try?

Good idea! Let us all brainstorm and come up with an inclusive,
non-judgmental list of issues and concerns central to ABC Christians.
Post your favorite issues, discuss them minimally if you have to, and I
volunteer to collate them into a master-list for future discussion.

> BTW, my Mac crashed and I just got a new IBM…

Ah, another Mac-turncoat! Tragic 😉

Sze-kar

——————————

From: Sze-kar Wan
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:11:44 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Re: Reaching the unchurched

James Wong wrote:
>
> … my observation has been that Asians are drawn to other
> Asians that are friendly and approachable. This expectation of
> friendliness is heightened when they visit a predominantly Asian church.
>

I agree. Thanks for sharing insights from your ministry, James. Asians
also tend to be a bit more passive among strangers (gross
generalization, I know); a friendly, proactive greeter could go a long
way putting them at ease.

By the way, your system clock reads 4 Nov 97, at least at my end.

Warmly,
Sze-kar

——————————

From: KRMMB
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:17:05 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: CBC (Canadien Born Chinese) Church Planting

FYI – Jason Galloway, this is in response to your inquiry concerning
VisionQuest. Pls re-send your email address as your email comes back returned
so that I can respond for future correspondence. Blessings.

Hey, Jason:

It was good to hear from you. Can you share with me more about yourself and
your background ie. are you the pastor? lay co-worker? seminary/bible college
grad? The development of the church start-up for Canadien born sounds
exciting. Do you have a denomination? a core team? a church-planting pastor?

Much of what VisionQuest does for our Chinese/Asian churches is to provide
pastoral supervision to pastoraless churches while in transition. We do this
in a direct ministry involvement with churches primarily in the Metro-NYC tri-
state region. However, now, with the marvel of email technology – we are also
able to advise others in their ministry developments.

Basically, VQ begins with a consult with a core of church leaders and we
develop twogether a 6 months game plan around ministry sessions.This is
renewed every six months to adjust our mission to changing needs and
expectations. These are mutually agreed upon sessions selected from preaching,
to teaching & training, to fellowship and to leadership ministry sessions.
While, there is not full-time pastoral support on a church campus, there is
however, continuous resource support(which is better than no support) that
enables the Lord’s work to be advanced under pastoral leadership.

Presently, three churches under the VQ pastoral watchcare program are
developing nicely. If you’d like, I can send you further information too.

Will be praying for your new church development.

Joyfully, in Christ – PKen L. Tom

VisionQuest
226 Milltown Road
East Brunswick, NJ 08816
732 613-0637

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:08:33 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Disney Boycott

Dear Concerned CACers:

FYI. Here’s a fact sheet about the Disney boycott. More food for thought.

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————-
Focus on the Family – Beware of the Magic Kingdom

“Families Can’t Trust Disney” Boycott

The Walt Disney Company name has become synonymous with family
entertainment. Unfortunately, families can no longer trust the company
that gave us Bambi, Mary Poppins, and Winnie the Pooh. In recent years,
Disney has acquired a number of subsidiaries that have produced extremely
offensive films and television programs that can hardly be considered
family friendly.

Disney finds itself in hot water [because it]
presented itself as the avatar of family
entertainment, while out some unmarked side
door the conglomerate was shoveling something else.
If customers now want to complain because they see
the company moving in an anti-Christian and
anti-family direction, Disney can thank itself.
It trained them to expect better.
-Holman W. Jenkins Jr.
(The Wall Street Journal, June 24, 1997)

Examples of Disney Offenses

Disney signed Martin Scorsese, the director of The Last Temptation of
Christ, Casino, Taxi Driver and many other hard-edged
films, to a 4-year contract. (Daily Variety, 2/9/96)

Disney hired Victor Salva, a convicted child molester, to direct the
movie Powder. (The Washington Times, 10/25/95)

Disney hired Kevin Smith to produce two movies: Dogma, which asserts that
Christian beliefs are little more than mythology,
Chasing Amy, a film about a man’s pursuit of a lesbian. (Daily Variety,
9/13/95)

Mark Gill, president of Disney-owned Miramax, admitted that his company
thrives on racy, often violent promotion for its movies.
(Daily Variety, 9/13/95)

Miramax release the homosexual movie, Lie Down With Dogs ( Daily Variety,
5/16/95)

In Priest, (Miramax), a movie about five Catholic clergy members, one
priest is depicted as a homosexual; the second, an
adulterer; the third, an alcoholic; the fourth, as demented; and the
fifth, as mean and vicious. (The Advocate, 4/4/95, 4/18/95;
Family Issues Alert, 3/30/95)

Pulp Fiction, (Miramax), a seedy, violent movie starring John Travolta,
had an NC-17 rating before editing, and an R-rating
afterward. (Daily Variety, 6/20/94)

Kids, (Miramax) was described by Variety as one of the most controversial
American movies ever made. According to Newsweek, The film
follows a number of barely pubescent-looking boys and girls around New
York City as they smoke pot, bait gays, beat a black
man and engage in graphic sex.. (Daily Variety, 1/27/95; Newsweek,
2/20/95; Associated Press, 6/29/95)

For the 1995 Christmas season, Disney nixed its 17-year-old Glory and
Pageantry of Christmas display (one of its few concessions
to the fact that Christmas is a Christian holiday) near Disney World in
Orlando, Fla., and replaced it with Tropical Santa.

Disney extends company health benefits to live-in partners of homosexual
employees, but not to unmarried heterosexual couples
who live together. (The Orlando Sentinel, 10/7/95; Daily Variety,
10/9/95)

Disney-owned Hyperion Press published Daniel Harris’ book, The Rise and
Fall of Gay Culture, in
which he tracked the evolution of the gay male culture over the
past 30 years. (The Economist, 7/12/97)

What Is the Intent of the Boycott?

Concern for the Walt Disney Company’s general erosion
as a purveyor of family entertainment has been growing
for years. Like the Southern Baptist Convention, which
began the boycott in June 1997, Focus on the Family feels
that Disney (owner of the ABC television network and
hundreds of other subsidiaries) has produced innumerable
TV programs, movies and music that deviate from the
wholesome values established by Walt Disney himself.

Focus on the Family joins a number of other
organizations that are also boycotting Disney, including
the Southern Baptist Convention, the Assemblies of God,
the Free Will Baptists, Citizens for a Better America,
Concerned Women for America and the American Family
Association.

Through the Boycott, We Hope to:

Raise the level of awareness among parents that
Disney can no longer be trusted to produce only the
wholesome entertainment on which the company built its
reputation

Put Disney in a position where it’ll have to
explain its Jekyll and Hyde policies and
products

Affect Disney’s reputation to the degree that
it will stop and take notice of its hypocrisies and
rediscover the core values evident during the years of
Walt Disney’s leadership

How Can You Support the Boycott?

Do not purchase any products that bear the
Disney name. This includes Disney toys, movie tickets,
videos, books and other licensed products.

Contact the Disney Company to share your
feelings about its objectionable products and policies and
let them know that you won’t be patronizing Disney or
purchasing its products. Write to:

Michael Eisner, President
c/o The Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521

Copy and distribute this information sheet to
family, friends and members of your church.

Contact other organizations and express your
thanks that they, too, are taking a stand for families
worldwide.

American Family Association
P.O. Drawer 2440
Tupelo, MS 38803
(800) 326-4543

Concerned Women for America
370 L’Enfant Promenade SW, Suite 800
Washington, D.C. 20024
(202) 288-7000

Southern Baptist Convention
901 Commerce, Suite 750
Nashville, TN 37203
(615) 244-2355

Copyright 1997 Focus on the Family. All rights reserved.
International copyright secured.
– ——— End forwarded message ———-

——————————

From: KG Louie
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:01:06 +0000
Subject: CAC_Mail: Chinese Customs and funerals….

Richard wrote:
>
>Your question about Asian funerals raises a very good question that’s
>been circling in my mind. I recently attended a funeral for one of my
>classmates who died somewhat unexpectedly. He was a Christian, and so
>are his sisters and brother-in-law, but his parents have remained
>Buddhists. At the funeral, although our Pastor officiated, many of the
>people (including his siblings and numerous Chinese church friends) went
>through the traditional Buddhist rituals — the processional with the
>decedent’s portrait at the head, lighting incense sticks, bowing three
>times at the gravesite, etc. When it was my turn to pay my final
>respects at the gravesite, I simply knelt and said a brief prayer for his
>soul and for his parents’ salvation. I didn’t know if I should have
>bowed three times out of deference to his parents, or something more
>demonstrative like genuflecting to demonstrate a “Christian-type”
>response, but I wanted to do a little something that reflected our
>Christian faith without offending the family. Kind of a sensitive topic,
>wouldn’t you agree? What would you have done?
>
>Richard

Dear Richard and CAC’ers

When my father died in 1983, I was called by the hospital to come down.
There was no further explanation. My wife and I left our home in Queens and
drove to Chinatown as quickly as possible. When we arrived on the floor
where dad was stationed, we met the doctor in charge of dad’s case at the
nurses station. In his best bedside manner, he escorted the both of us to
the waiting room and told us of the sad news……..

……….I was the first to tell mom of dads passing and then I call my
older brother. To make a long story short,,, somewhere between dad’s
passing and the funeral, mom told my older brother that I did not have to
participate in any of the funeral customs because I was a Christian.
I didn’t know this until I told my brother that we would not follow the
Chinese customs. He said it was okay because he already knew……………

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * *
…for many years as a child/teenager living in my parents apartment, I
followed the typical routines by bowing before the images of my dead
paternal grandparents of whom I never met. To me, it was fun holding the
incense sticks and running around the place. We also burnt the play money
that was to go to them, ETC. What did an immature child know let alone an
immature Christian child?

Living in Chinatown, USA, I was surrounded by many Chinese customs that I
thought were okay as a Christian… the eating part was good. It was only
when someone did a study on Romans 14:19-21 then I started to think about
what I was doing at home with my parents. (Please read the passage
yourself.) Needless to say, I agonized with this for a very long time. I
was most afraid of my mother’s reacting when I would tell her that I didn’t
want to bow down to images again. Her temper was well know within the
family circle. I saw myself being tossed out of the apartment, key lock
changes, never to darken their door again. This was serious! Well, I
finally told her in the best Chinglish (Chinese/English) I could muster up.
To my surprise, she accepted my decision.

…………when we visited my dads grave site with my older brother, I did
not participate with the rituals typical of that event. Laying down the
boiled chicken, pouring the wine, burning the fake money, bowing down with
the incense. He understood. In fact he said not even to touch any of the
materials during the process as it may offend my God.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * *

Many deaths and funeral have passed since then up to my mothers own 6 years
later. It was then when my older brother reminded me of mom’s okay back in
1983,,,tears,,,. Although mom had the typical Chinese funeral, ETC., I
requested a non typical time to eulogize her. This was very unusual but it
was important for me to use the chance to get the Word out. I asked
Brother/Pastor Rev. Sam Ling and Brother/Pastor Rev. Joseph Ng to share the
gospel with the attendees. (There was a very large turn out.) To this day,
I never properly thanked them for sowing the seeds of the gospel. (In front
of these many witnesses, I thank them for their help) I then shared my
memories of her to my family. Since I was the last to leave her before
getting married, I had the closest memories of her and perhaps the deepest.
Pastor Sam did a great job in translating into Cantonese.

The question that Brother Richard shared is: “…. reflected our Christian
faith without offending the family. Kind of a sensitive topic, wouldn’t you
agree? What would you have done?”

Perhaps as a young child to my teens to my young adulthood, I was sharing my
unspoken faith to my mother. I truly believe she saw it. I turned out to
be an okay person – Praise Him!! For those of you within the CAC who know
me, I hope you agree. She knew where I was all the time – at my second home
– – church.

Is there to be a compromise of our Christian faith when it comes to not
offending our families? I hope not. In my case, I started “showing” my
faith in my actions always (well not always) in obeidence, giving respect to
them and to others. In a very simple way, mom saw Jesus in me after I made
my decision to her.

Mine is not the answer for everyone but it worked for me. It was important
that I got this out of my system. It’s refreshing that I am able to purge
myself of old feelings. It helps.

Forgive the very long windedness of my story (ho cheung hay!!). Thank you
for your patience in reading it. May others see Him through your daily walk
with Him.

Until He returns, we work!!!!
King Louie
NYC, NY

——————————

From: Marfluctus
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:39:01 EST
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ

Sze-Kar wrote:

> It works regardless of culture. Sometimes, we focus too much on “ABC”
issues..
> …
> …know your “customer” (target group).

Are these two points somewhat inconsistent? If the customers turn out
to be ABCs and would like to see their issues addressed, shouldn’t the
church address said issues? If doufu is what the customers want, you
would selll it, right? So, how do you distinguish between the
“fundamentals” of a church and its doufu? Better, how do you package
your “fundamentals” like doufu?

The first comment

addresses the basics of church growth. Along that line of thought, ABC issues
are secondary to church growth fundamentals. We need to stick to the
fundamentals first.
The second comment

is about going into the specifics going beyond the fundamentals. It is like
the old saying about learn to walk before you try to run. You master the
fundamentals of church growth than focus on your target group such as ABC.
Both are necessary for growing an ABC-friendly church but you got to have your
church growth fundamentals down first.

Hope that makes it clearer.

Hai-Tao

——————————

From: drwong1@juno.com (Richard L Wong)
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 03:03:04 EST
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Chinese Customs and funerals….

>Mine is not the answer for everyone but it worked for me. It was
>important
>that I got this out of my system. It’s refreshing that I am able to
>purge
>myself of old feelings. It helps.
>
>Forgive the very long windedness of my story (ho cheung hay!!). Thank
>you
>for your patience in reading it. May others see Him through your
>daily walk
>with Him.
>
>Until He returns, we work!!!!
>King Louie
>NYC, NY

King: I’m glad you were able to take the time to share your personal
experiences and to get these feelings out of your system. I’m glad I
took the time to read it all the way through. I was deeply touched by
your openness and vulnerability, and I’m sure others were too! May the
Lord continue to use you until His return! (But I hope to see you before
then, either down here or up in NYC).

Blessings,

Brother Richard

——————————

From: SKYLeung
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:12:04 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Funeral Customs

Brother Richard,

I like Brother King’s sharing on this matter and I think he pointed to the
appropriate verses in Romans 14 that guide us on what to do in good conscience
– – once we are aware of what is taking place. While avoiding ceremonial
activity that is known to be non-Christian, I would look for any other
gestures of sympathy, appropriate mourning, and encouragement.

As for doing something ostensibly Christian, I don’t know if there’s a hard
and fast on this one either. We are the salt of the earth (Matthew 5.13).
I’m sure we’ve heard the qualities of salt enumerated endlessly – preserves,
diffuses, accentuates thirst, etc… But, two aspects – that it is
conspicously there and that it seasons – point to what we should do in the
presence and company of non-believing friends in events like funerals.
Whether we are going to be more pungent (potentially offensive) or flavorful
(arrestingly pleasing) in a given situation requires wisdom, sensitivity to
the condition of otthers, and conviction of the Holy Spirit. One thing we
should guard against is empty religious display. Does this answer your
question about genuflecting? Probably not.

In Christ,
Stephen
Alexandria

——————————

From: DJ Chuang
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 08:47:03 -0400
Subject: CAC_Mail: Youth Worker needed

*** forwarded message ***

From: Rlfong
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:15:15 EST
To: cac@emwave.net
Subject: Youth Worker needed

Dear folks:

On behalf of some friends of mine, I am sending this post to you.
Please
consider passing this onto to someone, who you know, or to someone who
might
know someone who might know someone, that the Lord may be leading to the
following opportunity.

Job Announcement: Part-time youth worker needed

Orchard Valley Christian Church, an English speaking Asian American
Ministry
reaching out to the Asian American community of Silicon Valley, meeting
in the
city of Santa Clara, which neighbors Sunnyvale, Cupertino, Saratoga,
Campbell,
and San Jose, is looking for someone who could work about 15-20 hours /
week
with Jr. High and High Schoolers. For info, see their web page at
http://www.orchardvalley.org and contact Pastor Peter Borromeo. email :
peter@orchardvalley.org.

Thanks for your time.

Ronnie Fong
Fremont, CA

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:50:31 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Chinese Customs and funerals….

Dear King:

Thanks for poignantly sharing about your experiences & struggles
on such a personal level.

In Him,
J. Chang

——————————

From: “Jerry C. Wong”
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:40:01 +0000
Subject: CAC_Mail: parenting teens

Dear cac’ers,
Are you, or do you know of anyone, who is conducting parenting teens
seminars (especially in an Asian context)? I would like to talk to
you or them. I’m trying to put some things together for my church.
Thanks.

Jerry C. Wong
jcwong@sj.bigger.net

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:11:46 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Christian Doctors: Scientist’s Cloning Scheme Would Kill…

Dear Concerned CACers:

FYI. Science fiction becoming real?

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————-
Christian Doctors: Scientist’s Cloning Scheme Would Kill Thousands

BRISTOL, Tenn., Jan. 7 /PRNewswire/ —
Experiments with human cloning such as those announced recently by a
Chicago
physicist would result in the deaths of thousands of human beings, noted
the
Christian Medical & Dental Society (CMDS), which represents over 11,500
doctors and medical students nationwide. CMDS executive director David
Stevens, MD reacted to a National Public Radio report that a Chicago-area
physicist was pursuing plans to set up a clinic to clone babies for
prospective parents. “Are we really willing to sacrifice hundreds of
embryos
– — developing human beings — to make one baby who may suffer monstrous
consequences of tampering with DNA?”

Stevens explained, “Cloning a single animal, the sheep Dolly, involved
the
deaths of 277 developing embryos and resulted in some duplicate lambs
being
born with severe and lethal birth defects. Because of differences in the
way
sheep and human cells divide, cloning humans poses greater difficulty.
As a
result, even more deaths and lethal birth defects can be expected during
experimentation. We all sympathize with infertile couples, but is it
worth
paying the price in human lives and suffering to come up with an
experimental
baby?”

Stevens also commented on an Associated Press report quoting the Chicago
physicist, Richard Seed, as saying that his human cloning plan would be a
step
to becoming one with God. “Apparently he feels unrestrained by his lack
of
training in either medicine or theology. The Scriptures clearly teach
that
God alone has the right over life and death. We are dismally unqualified
by
knowledge or moral stature to take on the role of Creator. Arrogance is
the
path to separation from God — not oneness with God.”

Stevens also noted, “This individual’s scheme is evidence that current
executive and legislative efforts to curtail human cloning are flawed and
need
to be strengthened.”

SOURCE Christian Medical & Dental Society

– ——— End forwarded message ———-

——————————

From: ohbrudder
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:07:24 -0800
Subject: CAC_Mail: Re: Work & Word

Hi Ben,

I was kinda waiting for Ted’s reply before throwing in my 10 cents.
I don’t know if Ted would agree with me but I think there is a
strong correlation between loving God and loving His own. I agree
with you that loving your neighbor is not the same as loving God.
Otherwise, He would not say, “the poor will always be there, but you
will not always have me.” Additionally and obviously, I wouldn’t
worship any man.

But if I love God, it must be evident in loving my brothers in Christ.
Jesus said, “If you love me you will obey what I command. . . My
command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.” Jn.14,15.
And 1 John 4:20 . . .
If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar.
For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen,
cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE: Loving your brother in Christ does
not mean you love God; but if you love God, you will love your
brother.
In your example, if I give $10 million to feed my poor brothers,
it doesn’t mean I love God. But if I love God, I might give $10
million to feed my poor brothers or anyone—if God commands—or
build Him a monument. Social action can be loving God with all our
strength IF it emanates from love and obedience to God.

I don’t think we disagree. And I’m not gung-ho on social action
because I don’t see Christ as big on social action. There are
tons of social programs out there but nothing to do with loving God.

agape,
bill leong

Benjamin C Wong wrote:
>
> Hi Ted and Bill;
> and all CACers who remembers Ted’s “Please expand..’social action .as
> loving God with all our strength.'”
>
> By “social action” I would understand this to be helping mankind,
such as
> feeding the hungry, caring for orphans and widows, healing the sick,
and
> such charitable works. This would be loving mankind. I would not
> understand loving mankind as the fulfilling of loving God with all my
> strength. The second great commandment is to love my neighbor as
myself,
> but that is not the same as the greatest commandment.
>
> Our Lord spoke of visiting Him while in prison and feeding Him while
> hungry was fulfilled by doing it to one of His people. So here we
can do
> good to Him by doing good to His people (man). This is because His
> people are representatives of Him. But this is not true of all
mankind.
> God’s desire for my love relation with believers are far greater and
> dearer than with unbelievers. See if the Scriptural exhortations to
> “social action” are not limited to God’s people.
>
>
> In loving God, should I use $10 million to feed thousands of staring
> people or to build a magnificent monument to God? Didn’t someone
used
> an ointment that is worth a year’s wage and poured it over Jesus’
feet
> instead of selling it and use the money to help the poor?
>

——————————

From: ohbrudder
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:30:00 -0800
Subject: CAC_Mail: Reaching the unchurched

FEW WOULD TURN TO CLERGY

In an USA Today article a couple of weeks ago there was this headline:
“Few would turn to clergy for help if they were dying.”

“Many Americans want spiritual comfort in their final days,
but only about one-third think clergy would be very helpful
in providing it, shows a new Gallup Institute poll.

“It’s a wake-up call for American clergymen,” says Geo.Gallup Jr.,
who directed the phone survey of 1,200 adults. Many anticipate
their last days as “a time of serious spiritual and emotional work,”
but “spiritual leaders one would expect to be trusted with these
matters clearly are not.”

Among highlights:
– –Half of those polled consider prayer important at life’s end
and fear they’ll die feeling cutoff from a higher power.

– –56% are concerned they won’t be forgiven by God or
reconciled with others.

– –36% say clergy would be comforting in many ways,
compared with 81% who cite family and 61% friends.

“Clergymen are seen as ministers of religion–boxed in by
creeds and dogmas,” says theologian historian Robert
Webber of Wheaton (Ill) College.”
____________________________________

Dear CACers,

I don’t know about you all but as a minister of the gospel
I wept in my heart. I repent in my heart before God, begging
for His forgiveness for the way we represent Him before the
world. “Lord, forgive us for playing church instead of being
your church.”

bill leong

——————————

From: drwong1@juno.com (Richard L Wong)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 02:56:54 EST
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Funeral Customs

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:12:04 EST SKYLeung writes:
>Does this answer
>your
>question about genuflecting? Probably not.
>
>In Christ,
>Stephen
>Alexandria
>

Actually, Steve, my question about genuflecting was somewhat tongue in
cheek, given the way that some people humbly and contritely bow at the
gravesite, when they said so many bad things about the decedent while he
was still alive. I guess even non-Christian Chinese can engage in empty
displays.

But thanks for taking the time to seriously ponder this topic and for
sharing your thoughts with the list members. Your response was what I
was hoping someone would say.

Richard

——————————

From: Marfluctus
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:37:39 EST
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Reaching the unchurched

bill wrote

“Lord, forgive us for playing church instead of being your church.”

I will amen to that. However, I think that we should not lay all the burden
on the clergy. It is the church, the Body, that needs to repent. As a lay
person, I firmly believe that the pastor’s job is to “equip the saints” and
all the saints got to work together and the Body has to be source of comfort
for the unchurched. I am glad to see that 61% think friends can be comforting
because there are a lot of us out there who can be that friend who brings
comfort in Christ’s name. We need to work together, clery and laity, and let
the church be the source of comfort for the unchurched. Bill is right, we
ought to stop playing church and start being the church!

Just my 2 cents.

Hai-Tao

——————————

From: Rev Cow
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:58:02 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Reaching the unchurched

Bill,

Well said on both counts (loving God with all our strength, Gallup poll).
Thank you. May God continue transforming us, whether paid or unpaid
priesthood of believers, so that the world might see Jesus through us.

Because He lives,
Ted

Rev. Ted Kau
Harvest San Gabriel Valley

The chief trouble with the church is that you and I are in it.
– –Charles H. Heimsath, “Sermons on the Inner Life”

——————————

From: ben_mel@juno.com (Benjamin C Wong)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 22:57:46 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Re: Work & Word

Hi Bill;

Greetings in the name of our Lord. I appreciated hearing from you.
On Jan 7th you wrote:

” I think there is a strong correlation between loving God and loving His
own.”

Yes! But I want to draw attention to your words, “His own.” We need to
discern the object of our love when God commands and exhorts us to love.
The great majority has to deal with His people. It is so
in your comments:

“But if I love God, it must be evident in loving my brothers in Christ.
Jesus said, “If you love me you will obey what I command. . . My command
is this: Love each other as I have loved you.” Jn.14,15. And 1 John 4:20
. . .
> If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar.
>For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love
God, whom he has not seen. ”

Then you made this observation:

“IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE: Loving your brother in Christ does
>not mean you love God; but if you love God, you will love your brother.”

I heartily agree. Loving His people does not equal loving God. But if I
love God, I will love His people. One reason for the latter is because
if I love Him I will obey Him. This is a distinction; to love God is to
obey Him, not only in loving one another but in all that He commands. I
don’t think we would say we are loving God with our total being when we
tell the truth; because this alone is not the fullness of my love.

Yes, if you love God, you will love your brother, there is a correlation
here, but they are not equated as in the first statement. Loving your
brother is only a part of your loving God. The possible equation may be
Loving God = Obeying God.

If loving His people does not mean loving God, neither can social action
be loving God (especially with all our strength), since this is of less
importance than loving His people. God has not commanded us to social
action. Social action does not equal love (although I generously wrote
earlier, “This would be loving mankind”).. Social action is not even a
part of obeying God.

You well noted:
” There are tons of social programs out there but nothing to do with
loving God.”

The danger here, and I do not believe that it is a danger to you, is the
substituting of social action for loving God with all our strength. May
none of God’s people ever come to that conclusion.

Also with love,

Ben

——————————

From: ben_mel@juno.com (Benjamin C Wong)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 22:57:46 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Feed the Sheep

Hi:

I wanted to share with the pastors on the CAC posting the following by
Charles Swindoll on doing it well in feeding the flock. These are just
some excerpts.

“I’ve watched congregations get healthy and grow closer together under
the faithful teaching of the Scriptures. I’ve also watched congregations
drift and die as the pulpit became shallow, trendy, and biblically weak.
It was my privilege this summer to preach at a church that was once
strong and stable. The pastor worked hard behind the scenes, preparing
both heart and mind for the morning and evening messages. Faithfully and
carefully, he took the flock into the sacred text. What he lacked in
personal creativity, he compensated for in expositional integrity. Not
surprisingly, that church became known as ‘a place to hear the Word of
God.’

Yes, there were other components – good music, a vibrant youth
ministry, zealous evangelism in and beyond the community, and strong
leadership among the laity. But, bottom line, the pulpit was the secret,
always drawing hungry sheep to the trough of Truth…”

“Tragically, the man was suddenly taken from this earth. Ever since
his death, the church has struggled … The place is on a long drift, the
flock is borderline lifeless, and the parking lot is less than half full.

I know, I know … there are certainly other reasons. … But if you
will allow me to make a point here … that flock needs first and
foremost a faithful expositor … a godly leader who will dig deeply into
the meat of the Book, worry over it ‘as a dog with a bone’ (Stott) then
deliver the goods with discernment, passion, and love. In my simple
opinion, that would do more to bring healing than a dozen other Band-Aids
that seem important but fade by comparison.

… Peter’s exhortation still rings true, ‘Feed the flock of God among
you’ (I Pet. 5:2)

Glance at the early church. Their top priority is clear: ‘They devoted
themselves to the apostles’s teaching…’ (Acts 2:42)…. And when a
difficulty arose between two different groups in the assembly, those in
leadership wisely called for assistance from several qualified men in the
church lest they ‘neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to
wait on tables’ (Acts 6:2)

Times change, no doubt about it. Methods are always in need of being
updated and evaluated. How we do what we do must remain relevant; it
cannot be static or predictable. But let’s not kid ourselves – you can’t
beat good food served well by a devoted servant of God. Sheep who think
otherwise have lost their way.

Amos was right. The ‘famine of hearing the words of the Lord’ not only
will come, but has come. Applying his word picture to today, people now
‘stagger from sea to sea and wander from north to east, searching for the
word of the Lord’ (Amos 8:11-12). Many are seldom rewarded for all their
searching.

Dallas Seminary exists for various reasons, none more important than
training gifted people to handle the Word of God correctly, and then
communicate it clearly and carefully on a consistent basis. If … you
are in leadership among a flock of God’s people – take an honest look at
your ministry. Are you using the skills you learned? Are you engaged in
a serious study of some part of the Bible on a regular basis? Are you a
part of the solution to the ‘famine’ that’s in the land? Are you a
faithful expositor? ‘Sheep come,’ remember, ‘where there’s good food.'”

This article focused on the most important ( not the only) ingredient in
the local church. If this is lacking, then all the other ingredients and
methods will leave the sheep starving or being poisoned. How many of our
churches has pastors who are serving “good food?” How many of our
pastors are spiritually mature enough to do so? I don’t raise these
questions to exalt myself. I am fearful for myself and pray that God
will take me there. I raise these questions because this problem is
basic. Not only do the churches need more leaders, she needs more
spiritually matured and equipped leaders. A sincere, devoted, loving,
sensitive, spiritual Christian leader is not enough. He must also be
“HOLDING FAST the faithful word which is IN ACCORDANCE with the TEACHING,
that he may be able both to exhort in SOUND DOCTRINE and to refute those
who contradict.” (Tit. 1:9) Capitals are mine.

This belief has a lot to do with my own strong concern that I have a
correct understanding of the Bible. I am not threatened but rather I am
greatly appreciative of challenges and corrections to what I teach. I am
not trying to discover MY truths. I am trying to understand GOD’s truth.

To God be the glory in the church,

Ben

——————————

From: jro6@juno.com (Jonathan c Ro)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 23:33:43 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Re: Reaching the unchurched

Hi Ted,

Thanks for your response. I’m also encouraged by your vision.
It’s great to dialogue with someone who has a similar heart and mind to
reach the lost.
I’m interested in your direct mailing efforts. You said 5549
mailings were sent out to the community and 159 responded to your seeker
service. Tell me more about it. Who did you target in the community?
How did you find their addresses? How many Asians came? How many
non-Asians came? Did unbelieving AAs actually come to the seeker service
just because of a mailing they received? How many AAs came without a
relationship with someone in your church?
Your church may be a good case study. If your direct mailing was
a success in its limited attempt, it might have ramifications for future
strategies. If your direct mailing brought in a number of unchurched
AAs, it might address the argument I’ve heard so often of why seeker
service models won’t work in an Asian American context… “because AAs
are so relationship oriented, they will only come to church if they are
brought by a friend. AAs don’t respond to mass mailings.” How do we
know unless we try?

Looking forward to hearing from you. In Christ, Jon

——————————

From: jaschuck@juno.com (James Chuck)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:29:30 -0700
Subject: CAC_Mail: Confab 98

Confab 98, a conference for Chinese Christians in North America, will
meet June 23-28, 1998 on the campus of Biola University. The theme of the
conference will be “Growing Deep, Reaching Out: Discerning God’s
Direction for His People.”

The English theme speaker will be the Rev. Dr. Franklin Woo, who served
for many years as Director of the China Program for the National Council
of Churches; and prior to that, had served as chaplain at Chung Chi
College at the Chinese University of Hong Kong. Dr. Woo received his
Ed.D. degree from Columbia University.

The Chinese theme speaker will be Dr. In-Sing Leong, noted author,
lecturer and teacher. Dr. Leong received his Ph.D. from the University
of Hawaii, and taught for many years at the Hong Kong Baptist College and
at Regent College in Vancouver.

Daily Bible studies in English will be led by Dr. Jeffrey Kuan, Professor
of Old Testament at the Pacific School of Religion in Berkeley; and in
Chinese by Dr. Royan Yuen, an adjunct professor of Old Testament at the
Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary.

A concurrent program for young people will be led by Rev. Lawrence Jay,
currently providing pastoral leadership for the Sunset Ministry of the
First Chinese Baptist Church in San Francisco. A M.Div. graduate from
Golden Gate Theological Seminary, he had previously served in campus
ministry through the Asian American Christian Fellowship (AACF) on the U.
C. Berkeley campus and in Cal State Hayward.

Thirteen different workshops will be offered during the conference on
various aspects of church life and mission.

Confab 98 is sponsored by the National Conference of Chinese Christian
Churches, Inc., a group organized in 1955 to provide periodic
opportunities for Chinese churches to gather together for fellowship
sharing, and inspiration. Currently, a meeting is held every two years in
different locations throughout North America. While the main
constituency for Confab meetings have come from mainline denomination,
all interested persons are welcomed to participate. Currently serving as
chairperson for the National Conference is the Rev. Jenny Quey, Cantonese
pastor for the Community Baptist Church in San Mateo, California. The
planning team for Confab 98 consists of pastors and lay persons from many
different denominations.

Special discounts are given for early registrations, as well as for
seminarians. For a brochure with complete details, please e-mail me your
address to JasChuck@Juno.com and I will see that a copy is sent to you
through the mail. Or you may write to Confab, 1 Waverly Place, San
Francisco, California, 94108 and request a brochure.

James Chuck
Professor of Theology and Church Ministries
Director of Continuing Education
American Baptist Seminary of the West
2606 Dwight Way
Berkeley, California 94704
(510) 841-1905 (415) 661-1420

For the Confab 98 planning team.

——————————

From: Sze-kar Wan
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:15:36 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Minority Recruitment Conference

Dear CACers:

The Committee on Under-represented Racial and Ethnic Minorities in the
Profession (CUREMP), of which I am a member, is cosponsoring the 2d
recruitment conference, 25-27 September 1998, at Vanderbilt Univ,
Nashville, TN.

Purpose: “The conference seeks to identify and bring together 24 racial
and ethnic minority students at the Master’s level from among the
Afr-Am, Asi-Am, Hispanic-Am, and Native-Am populations. Targeted are
students who have the intellecutal talents and interests in, as well as
the maturity and tenacity neeced for, scholarly study of religion and/or
the Bible….”

Qualifications: “Applicants must be enrolled in a Master’s degree
program in the study of religion at the time of application; students
already accepted for admission to a doctoral program are not eligible.
Students selected will receive full financial support to attend the
conference.”

Deadline: End of February. We start reading applications in March.

Sponsoring Bodies: Am Academy of Religion, Assoc. of Theol. Schools in
the US and Canada, Catholic Theol. Assoc. of Am., Fund for Theol.
Education, Society of Biblical Literature (of which CUREMP is a part).

This is a great opportunity for anyone who is condsidering doctoral
studies in any of theological disciplines, since it will provide
information about various programs, networking that will last a
lifetime, a chance to meet the few but dedicated racial and minority
scholars already in the profession and to hear their stories.
Furthermore, it’s all expense paid! Write me privately if you are
interested. AsiAm were underrepresented (imho) in the last recruitment
conference.

Warmly,
Sze-kar

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:26:12 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: FYI: Quote of the Week

To All Concerned CACers:

– –The Quote of the Week

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————-
“Women’s physical health is held hostage to politics. Abortion clinics
remain the most unregulated medical facilities in America. They need not
adhere to minimum federal health standards, and women are not told of
risks to their physical or mental health. These issues are too “hot” for
legislation, even when women’s health is on the line.

For example, one abortion clinic, concerned for its reputation at the
local hospital, allowed a woman to hemorrhage and become sterile before
taking her there for prompt treatment. Clinic workers took her instead
for
an hour ride to a more “discreet” hospital for care that came too late. ”

– — Marjorie Dannenfelser, Susan B. Anthony List

– —
Source: The Pro-Life Infonet (infonet-mod@prolife.org)

——————————

From: Gregory Jao
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:33:56 -0600
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Re: Work & Word

As we think through (or discussion the relationship between) social action,
evangelism, and loving God, I’d like to suggest that we review and reflect
on the Lausanne Covenent again. Though dated, I’ve always found that
clauses five and six, especially, lay out a meaningful groundwork to
understand the relationship between these two concerns of the church. It
seems almost manicheean to suggest too strong a dichotomy between the two.
The 1982 Grand Rapids report by the World Evangelical Fellowship and
Lausanne Committee also provides some helpful clarification, I think.

Greg

——————————

From: JWongCDI@aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:20:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CAC_Mail: re: reaching the unchurched

Hi Jonathan;
Trust that December was a refreshing and rewarding time for you and that you
will have an exciting New Year.

You wrote;
“I’m interested in your direct mailing efforts. You said 5549
mailings were sent out to the community and 159 responded to your
seekerservice. Tell me more about it.”

I know that our burden for the masses without Christ leads us to seek ways to
be more effective. However, I would like to remind us that the basic pattern
we are encouraged to adopt is to train the Christian to do the ministry.
Therefore, my first caution is to be diligent about training the church
members in personal evangelism. When they can clearly share the Gospel and
effectively teach others how to do it, we may be practicing the best plan for
reaching our community.

This thought, of course, is not to negate any of the other efforts in
evangelism.

Joe

——————————

From: JWongCDI@aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:20:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CAC_Mail: Tennis-Pro, Michael Chang’s Letter to a Newswriter

Happy New Year to y’all;

Did you see the following? I think the source is reliable.
Joe Wong

>>>> begin <<<<
X-From: schang@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us (susan chang)
To: Eightputt@AOL.com

Dear CNN/SI,

Like anyone, after going through tough times and discouraging moments, it's
only normal to feel down. I've always said that true joy and happiness come
from the Lord and, as a Christian, circumstances don't effect that.
Circumstances will always change in a person's life (sometimes good and
sometimes bad), but the Lord's love never changes and that is where a
Christian's joy and peace come from.

The Lord has taught me many things in my life. The one that seems to come up
most often is perseverance: The ability to get back up and try again when
you fail and fall. At this point in my career, it's time to get back up
again. I look at my tennis career as a testimony for the Lord to show that
with Him, all things are possible. The fact of life is that you aren't
always going to have great times. Champions definitely show that they can
achieve success in incredible ways, but I believe true champions show that
they can recover and come back too!

I have about five weeks off now before I leave for Australia and I know the
Lord wants me to make good use of it. The thing I've been learning recently
is to praise the Lord in all circumstances because He knows best.

Gentleman, it's time to ask yourself, "In whom do you trust and where is
your faith?" And that is a question that I would like to ask the writer
myself. Why? Because he underestimates the power of God to work through any
individual under any circumstance.

Take care and have a wonderful Christmas and New Year's! 🙂

In Christ,

Michael Chang

——————————

From: Sze-kar Wan
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:51:16 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Hermeneutics and unity

** Apologies! This is a long post. Feel free to hit the delete button **

Dear Ben:

Thank you for answering my earlier post on hermeneutics with such care.
As I am trying to catch up with my correspondence, I have to leave your
12/24 post till last, because it deserves to be answered with equal
care.

Benjamin Wong wrote:
> I make a necessary distinction between “knowing” & “understanding”

I applaud this distinction. In fact, we can refine it further. We can
identify three types of knowing (with due credit to Origen):

(1) FACTUAL KNOWING (=your “knowing”): This involves knowing isolated
facts that anyone with the right tools can establish with more or less
certainty. E.g., knowing the Ten Commandments, history of Israel, etc.

(2) COHERENT or PURPOSEFUL KNOWING (=part of your “understanding” and
perhaps also your “application”): This involves putting the whole thing
together, fitting “facts” into a larger, coherent pattern of
significance, seeing the big picture. This is the point at which we
derive “meaning” out of reading a text.

(3) SPIRITUAL KNOWING (=the part of your “understanding” where you cite
1 Cor 2.14): This involves the Spirit’s leading us into the mind of God.

In all three types of knowing, I submit, the interpreter is personally
involved.

Re SPIRITUAL KNOWING: The interpreter is clearly involved personally,
since it’s the Spirit of God that guides him or her directly into
Truth. Here the interpreter appropriates a kind of ecstatic or mystical
knowledge which comes as a result of revelation. Said revelation
sometimes reinforces what’s in Scripture, sometimes clarifies it,
sometimes supplements it, though it never contradicts it. The mode of
revelation, furthermore, sometimes renders the human mind passive, so
that the mind becomes a an empty receptor. At other times, the Spirit
works in conjunction with a mind that it has energized and sharpened for
just such an occasion. Both forms of spiritual experience can be
documented both in the Bible and in the history of the church. Whatever
it be, experience and intense personal involvement produces this sort of
knowledge.

It’s perhaps in this context that we should understand allegorical
interpretation. If we believe that revelation continues today through
the Holy Spirit–and I do–we must grant the possibility that the Spirit
can, and in its own timing does, lead us to see things beyond the text.
The Spirit led Paul to read, e.g., the Hagar-Sarah story as an allegory
of earthly and heavenly Jerusalem (Gal 4.21-31). There is therefore no
reason why the Spirit cannot again do so today. As you say, we cannot
limit God or the Spirit to the historical-grammatical (H-G) method.

You object, rightly: Can we can trust someone to be inspired by the Holy
Spirit and not by some other spirit? Can we trust two different
allegorical interpretations to be both inspired by the same Spirit? Of
course we have to test the spirit. Of course we need to adjudicate
between different interpretations. For sake of the argument, let’s say
we trust the source of the inspiration. Are we then going to fault the
interpretation just because it happens to be different from our H-G
results? I surely hope not. If so, the onus is on whether it is the
right Spirit and NOT on allegorical interpretation as a method. There
are different criteria for testing the Spirit, in which case it is up to
the believing community (fellowship, church, denomination, etc.) to
decide whether a spirit is authentic or not.

Furthermore, sometimes the same passage does yield different
interpretations. Take the Hagar-Sarah story again. Paul’s reading of
it in Galatians is clearly different from our H-G reading of Genesis
16. And yet, both are in the same canon, and both are Scripture! Being
different does not automatically mean it’s wrong. In sum, there is no a
priori reason why we must reject an interpretation just because it is
allegorical.

Re COHERENT KNOWING: Here we leave the specifically Christian realm and
enter into an area Christians and non-Christians share. E. G.
Collingwood, the early 20th-century British historian, author of _The
Meaning of History_, distinguished between chronology and history.
Chronology is an assemblage of dates, events, persons–what we call
factoids today. It is meaningless and uninteresting; it does not tell
us how events are related to each other and what their causal
relationships might be.

History, on other hand, tells a coherent story, answers at best it can
the causal questions–from a particular perspective and for a purpose.
No storyteller or historian is neutral; he or she in the course of
telling the story construes meaning out of the materials and relates
said meaning to himself or herself and then to the audience. This
process is sometimes conscious, sometimes unconscious, but it has to
take place or else the story becomes a jumble of incoherent facts. If
the story makes sense, then it has a point and meaning.

If that is the case, the storyteller–or in our case interpreter of
Scripture–is PART AND PARCEL of the story or interpretation. We can
say such-and-such is so-and-so’s history of England or so-and-so’s
interpretation of Milton. But we cannot say it is THE history of
England or it is THE interpretation of Milton.

Ultimately what makes a story meaningful or not depends on whether the
audience as a whole buys it or not. Something comparable to testing the
spirit communally goes on here as well.

Re FACTUAL KNOWING: This is the category in which the H-G method
presumably shines. But even here, the H-G interpreter is personally
involved. Not all practitioners of the H-G method always come up with
the same result. What accounts for the differences? Different levels
of competence, for sure. But we all know equally competent H-G scholars
can–in fact more often than not–come to different conclusions. Why?
Because of different assumptions and starting points. To cite an
extreme example, whether we believe miracles can happen or whether God
would intervene in human history and alter the laws of physics
determines whether we think the bodily resurrection of Christ took place
or not.

In fact, questions like resurrection and miracle are NOT properly
historical questions. Historians have to rely on a few a priori axioms,
chief among them is that historical patterns must be repeatable and
observable. Thus, e.g., Plutarch’s report of Cleopatra’s suicide at
Mark Antony’s grave is possible, because such an event could be observed
and is known to have taken place in similar occasions. By such a
criterion, so goes the hardcore historian, the resurrection is not
possible, because it cannot be documented anywhere else in human
history. The historian at this point has to find other, more
historically “reasonable” causes to explain the resurrection accounts
(e.g., psychological, sociological, mythical, etc.). As a matter of
fact, most H-G scholars do operate in this fashion. Just ask members of
the Jesus Seminar, which is the logical–and sad–conclusion of the H-G
method. This is what I mean by “the cultural, historical, and
philosophical biases BUILT INTO the method” (emphasis added later).

You will object: Why can’t we simply ignore the majority of H-G critics
and adopt for ourselves as OUR H-G principle the possibility of
miracle? Yes, we can, and many do, myself included. But once we do
that, doesn’t it become obvious that the interpreter’s assumption (in
this case his or her belief in miracle), far from being removed,
actually enters into the equation? As a result, the interpreter is
inextricably linked to his or her interpretation. What saves the
interpretation turns out to be the interpreter’s SUBJECTIVITY. Ironic,
isn’t it? Pure objectivity–if it means bracketing the knowing
subject–is not such a good thing after all!

Not only is pure objectivity not always desirable; it’s not possible
either. Werner Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle shows that an
observer of any phenomenon inevitably alters said phenomenon, so much so
that we can never accurately predict the position and velocity of the
particles involved. Likewise, Kurt Goedel’s 1930 theorem demonstrates
that even for a closed system like mathematics, any given proof rests on
a prior proof which itself rests on a yet another prior proof. We can
push this chain of proofs further and further back until we come to some
unprovable axioms which we simply have to accept or, to use our
language, accept by faith. Even a mathematician is personally involved
in his or her task!

This takes care of H-G results which we don’t agree on. What about
interpretations we do agree on? In the following quote you rightly turn
our attention to the issue of obedience:

> The problem is not the interpretation, nor the lack of
> understanding. The concern is “submit to it literally”
> or how to apply such an understanding to our culture.
> Although it does not fit our society, one can understand
> it as it works in their society, . . . literally. There
> is a difference between interpretation and application.
> There is, from our approach, only one true interpretation
> but many applications.

But even here the interpreter plays an indispensable role. Return to my
example of slavery. You and I would agree, at the factual level, that
Col 3.22-4.1 assumes the existence of slavery and teaches slaves to be
obedient to their masters and masters to treat the slaves fairly. Col
warns the slaves more severely, devoting 4 verses (3.22-25) to various
injunctions and strictures, while spending only one short verse (4.1) on
the role of the masters. How would a modern reader “submit to it
literally”? Antebellum slave-owners, in fact, did submit to it
literally, and sympathetic interpreters urged Afr-Am slaves to do
likewise. Abolitionist interpreters, however, pointed to the evil of
slavery and refused to accept the authority of the text’s literal
meaning. They juxtaposed the literal facts of Col 3.22-4.1 (and similar
passages) to what they knew to be greater issues of God-given human
dignity and freedom. They fitted the literal facts into a larger
pattern, if you will, and realized that the literal facts had to be
reunderstood, reconfigured, refashioned. The second level of “coherent
knowing” dictated to them that they must subsume the first level of
“factual knowing” under something else. The “facts” had to be
reprioritized.

What was true for abolitionists is even truer for us today. We don’t
live in a slave society; we can’t even conceive of such a society. To
make our task even more difficult, the master-slave relationship was
integral to first-century Roman economy; all the relationships included
in Col 3.18-4.1 (and parallel passages) were in fact parts of a
first-century household, again a standard economic unit. We have a
completely different economic system which operates on the basis of
individual rather than household. This makes “submitting to it
LITERALLY” downright impossible, if “literal” literally means “literal”!

For both abolitionists and late 20th-century interpreters, their
personal involvement–i.e., modern judgments, present-day socio-economic
locations, histories and backgrounds, etc.–all play a part in their
“knowing.” You will object that this sort of “knowing” does not alter
the text or its literal meaning. Quite right! But the literal meaning
of Col 3.22-4.1, by itself, is “meaningless” in the context of a modern
discourse which we can understand and of which we are part. In other
words, “factual knowing” is meaningless without “coherent knowing.”
(Ludwig Wittgenstein called this phenomenon “language game.”)

Therefore, the interpreter is an integral part of any knowing. In my
opinion, this is actually a good thing. It teaches us, among other
things, to be more responsible. But that’s another story. This is
already monstrously long.

In Christ,
Sze-kar

——————————

From: OHBRUDDER
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:29:46 -0600
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ

CACers,

If you’ve been following the discussions on “reaching the
unchurched”, “ABC ministry”, “Anatomy of an ABC Body
of Christ, ” etc. I suspect that you care about souls; we
are concerned about reaching people for Christ and populate
His kingdom (not the same as populating our church). And
whether we are clergy or laity involved we are ministers.

But before we are ministers, we are Christians. Before we
are pastors, worship leaders, teachers, evangelists,
etc we are adopted sons (and daughters) of the Most High.
We were SAVED by grace thru FAITH. God’s grace, our faith.
We are called believers because we have faith in God;
we were saved thru faith and we live by faith.

Sometimes in our excitement and exuberance to serve God
we forget to live by faith, a righteousness from first to last
that is by faith. We forget to minister by faith; we forget to
build our church by faith; we forget to reach the ABCs by
faith.

We look to see how others “do it,” how they build their
churches and reach the lost. But when we were saved, we
didn’t get saved because we saw others “walk down the
aisle” or get baptized and did likewise. No, we got saved
because of our faith in Christ and demonstrated it by
“walking the aisle” or getting baptized.

We trusted in Christ as Saviour to be saved. Let’s trust
in Christ as the Master Church Builder to build our
church. We, the righteous shall live by faith. In that
living we are ministering and serving by faith. That is
how we will SUCCEED, by faith; with the premise of
His promise: “I will build my church, and the gates
of Hades will not overcome it.” Such a church is built
upon a rock and not built upon the sand.

bill leong

Jeremiah 33:3 ‘Call to me and I will answer you
and tell you great and unsearchable things you
do not know.’

ohbrudder wrote:
>
> Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ
> or
> Making it Difficult for ABCs to Go to Hell
>
> [A SECRET of Success: Approach ministry with the
> premise that Jesus is building His church like He said.
> We take Him at His word. If we by faith obey His
> directions, we become the instrument in His hand in
> building His church. . . . Not by might, nor by
> power, but by my Spirit,” says the Lord.
>
> Any pressure to succeed belongs to the Lord
> because it is His vision, plan, and Spirit; whether we
> win one or one million, to us what counts is “Well done,
> good and faithful servant!” That’s all I want to hear.
> There is no failure in obedience.
>
> We tend to make our own plans, do it our way,
> then ask God to rubber stamp His blessing on it.
> Well-meaning, sincere people, even Christians,
> by the flesh–scientifically, ingenuity, hard work–
> can build a “successful” work, e.g., Mormons, JWs,
> Scientology, etc. . . but not a church that glorifies
> Christ. . .even though it may have large numbers.]
>

——————————

From: jro6@juno.com (Jonathan c Ro)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:10:37 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Re: reaching the unchurched

Hi Joe,
Thanks for the reminder. Yes, your point is well taken. My
question was directed more towards a new church plant situation,
especially a seeker church plant (Saddleback or Willowcreek model). A
seeker church plant must start off right from the beginning in order for
it to work. Openning Sunday must have a large group effect (100+) or
else the chances of succeeding greatly diminishes. One of the ways to
get that kind of mass on opening Sunday is through direct mailing.
However, everything that you’ve said is right on. The core group of
Christians (preferably sent by a mother church) must be trained in
personal evangelism. Hopefully, both (personal and mass invitations) are
being done so that there are multiple entry points into the church. In
fact, the first two steps of Willowcreek’s 7 step strategy are just that.
Step 1: Build an authentic relationship with unchurched Harry and Mary.
Step 2: Share a verbal witness. Step 3: Invite them to a Seeker Service.
Willowcreek also has one of the best evangelistic training tools out
there called “Becoming a Contagious Christian.”

Jon

On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:20:16 -0500 (EST) JWongCDI@aol.com writes:
>Hi Jonathan;
>Trust that December was a refreshing and rewarding time for you and
>that you
>will have an exciting New Year.
>
>You wrote;
>”I’m interested in your direct mailing efforts. You said 5549
>mailings were sent out to the community and 159 responded to your
>seekerservice. Tell me more about it.”
>
>I know that our burden for the masses without Christ leads us to seek
>ways to
>be more effective. However, I would like to remind us that the basic
>pattern
>we are encouraged to adopt is to train the Christian to do the
>ministry.
>Therefore, my first caution is to be diligent about training the
>church
>members in personal evangelism. When they can clearly share the
>Gospel and
>effectively teach others how to do it, we may be practicing the best
>plan for
>reaching our community.
>
>This thought, of course, is not to negate any of the other efforts in
>evangelism.
>
>Joe
>

——————————

From: gdot@juno.com
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:11:05 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Humor

> >>Ol’ Fred had been a faithful man and was in the hospital, near
> death. The family called their pastor to stand with them. As the
> pastor stood next to the bed, Ol’ Fred’s condition appeared to
> deteriorate and he motioned frantically for something to write on.
> >
> >>The pastor lovingly handed him a pen and a piece of paper, and Ol’
> Fred used his last bit of energy to scribble a note, then he died.
> >
> The pastor thought it best not to look at the note at that
time,
> so he placed it in his jacket pocket. At the funeral, as he was
> finishing the message, he realized that he was wearing the same >jacket
that he was wearing when Ol’ Fred died.
> >
> >> He said, “You know, ol’ Fred handed me a note just before he died.
> I haven’t looked at it, but knowing Fred, I’m sure there’s a word of
> inspiration there for us all.”
> >
> >>He opened the note, and read, “You’re standing on my oxygen >tube!”

——————————

From: ohbrudder
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:12:29 -0800
Subject: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ 2

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

– ————–450955206095
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

and here is a sequel . . .bill

– ————–450955206095
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:29:46 -0600
From: OHBRUDDER
To: CAC
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ

CACers,

If you’ve been following the discussions on “reaching the
unchurched”, “ABC ministry”, “Anatomy of an ABC Body
of Christ, ” etc. I suspect that you care about souls; we
are concerned about reaching people for Christ and populate
His kingdom (not the same as populating our church). And
whether we are clergy or laity involved we are ministers.

But before we are ministers, we are Christians. Before we
are pastors, worship leaders, teachers, evangelists,
etc we are adopted sons (and daughters) of the Most High.
We were SAVED by grace thru FAITH. God’s grace, our faith.
We are called believers because we have faith in God;
we were saved thru faith and we live by faith.

Sometimes in our excitement and exuberance to serve God
we forget to live by faith, a righteousness from first to last
that is by faith. We forget to minister by faith; we forget to
build our church by faith; we forget to reach the ABCs by
faith.

We look to see how others “do it,” how they build their
churches and reach the lost. But when we were saved, we
didn’t get saved because we saw others “walk down the
aisle” or get baptized and did likewise. No, we got saved
because of our faith in Christ and demonstrated it by
“walking the aisle” or getting baptized.

We trusted in Christ as Saviour to be saved. Let’s trust
in Christ as the Master Church Builder to build our
church. We, the righteous shall live by faith. In that
living we are ministering and serving by faith. That is
how we will SUCCEED, by faith; with the premise of
His promise: “I will build my church, and the gates
of Hades will not overcome it.” Such a church is built
upon a rock and not built upon the sand.

bill leong

Jeremiah 33:3 ‘Call to me and I will answer you
and tell you great and unsearchable things you
do not know.’

ohbrudder wrote:
>
> Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ
> or
> Making it Difficult for ABCs to Go to Hell
>
> [A SECRET of Success: Approach ministry with the
> premise that Jesus is building His church like He said.
> We take Him at His word. If we by faith obey His
> directions, we become the instrument in His hand in
> building His church. . . . Not by might, nor by
> power, but by my Spirit,” says the Lord.
>
> Any pressure to succeed belongs to the Lord
> because it is His vision, plan, and Spirit; whether we
> win one or one million, to us what counts is “Well done,
> good and faithful servant!” That’s all I want to hear.
> There is no failure in obedience.
>
> We tend to make our own plans, do it our way,
> then ask God to rubber stamp His blessing on it.
> Well-meaning, sincere people, even Christians,
> by the flesh–scientifically, ingenuity, hard work–
> can build a “successful” work, e.g., Mormons, JWs,
> Scientology, etc. . . but not a church that glorifies
> Christ. . .even though it may have large numbers.]
>

– ————–450955206095–

——————————

From: gdot@juno.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:13:22 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Poem–G

famished ‘and the Pharisees we’re fasting’ (Mk. 2:18)

six feet of death walk over me living
six hundred six shooters blasting
broken- and sick-ness, sixty-six cures
with six figures in come the laughing

like alcohol breath and cigarette sores
a war of the worlds can’t be masked
th’ Pharisees watch, they see, they abhor
You eat but they want You to fast

i groan like a leper, lonely within
death lurks, long shadows casting
a pallor so deep lies under th’ skin
it’s sin and i fear what You’re asking,

but You are th’ doctor–i need you much,
a taste of Your love ever lasts
a blossoming desert, manna to touch
a feast while the Pharisee fasts,

catering hatred, murder, and scorn…
But You like a king at a table for two
feast on the Sabbath–a good day for corn,
the outcast, and weary…

May i eat with You?

——————————

From: gdot@juno.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:29:27 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Re: Poem–G

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:59:44 gdot writes:
>famished ‘and the Pharisees we’re fasting’ (Mk. 2:18)

typo: ‘we’re’ should be ‘were’. g

——————————

From: “DJ Chuang”
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:51:53 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Personal Ministry

CACers:

As I’ve alluded to a few weeks ago, I wanted to share with you
personally what is upon my heart as I engage in the work of a lifetime
of ministry. Now even as I share this, I realize that there may be
misunderstandings or disagreement (for example, some will be disturbed
that I don’t quote scripture verses here), and that is okay. I believe
in the reality of life, conflict and misunderstandings are inevitable,
but acceptance, reconciliation, and understanding can be achived
through genuine committed relationships. Such commitment can be
fostered even online over an email forum- at least it’s that leap of
faith that you would seek to understand those who are different.

Concerning the work of the ministry, I have two basic categories in my
head- professional ministry and personal ministry: (1) Professional
ministry is the standard church pastor or parachurch or missionary
work; (2) Personal ministry is the 1-on-1 discipleship, personal
sharing of life, and vulnerability, and character molding.

My heart is very much for personal ministry, that being the genre of
1-on-1 discipleship, personal impact up close, and seeing a few lives
changed by God’s Word perhaps through me. To use the terminology of
spiritual formation, my personal life’s ambition is to make it onto the
life maps of a handful of people, and I believe I will have lived a
fulfilled ministry life.

As I understand it, it doesn’t take that much time for personal
ministry to be effective, though of course, more time can reap more
fruit. Now, this discipleship takes a lot of time investment, in
terms of hanging out, and sharing of lives vulnerably, and gracious
acceptance of weaknesses, and encouragement to grow; it’s not just
filling in the blanks and going over answers in a discipleship manual.

Being a professional minister now, how I bring the two together is this:
that professional ministry opens a few more doors for me to do personal
ministry. (in this sense, I could have opportunity for personal
ministry whether I’m a pastor or an engineer, the profession is a
secondary vehicle for personal ministry)

I sense my own limitations that I don’t have the persona or charisma
to do a big professional ministry and wow a lot of people. So I
don’t expect that much fruit from my professional ministry, like a
megachurch, or hitting the speaking circuit, but as I’m faithful to do
all that the professional ministry requires in the areas of preaching
and teaching and shepherding, that some lives may be changed as well,
though not as dramatically as life change though personal ministry.

And so this is how I see ministry, and thus my leading core values for
ministry are life change and vulnerability, for those are the very
ingredients for my own spiritual growth and spirituality.

His Seeker,
DJ
– —
*

——————————

From: Gregory Jao
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:07:09 -0600
Subject: CAC_Mail: Work and Word–Lausanne

Several of you asked for the relevant portions of the Lausanne Covenent.
Here are clauses 4-6. I would also suggest that folk who are interested
should look up the Lasuanne webpage at http://www.lausanne.org. Many of the other
clauses are worth reflecting on as well.

The Manila Manifesto, a later document issued by the Lausanne II Conferece,
elaborates many of these points. It’s available on the pages as well.

Greg

4. THE NATURE OF EVANGELISM

To evangelize is to spread the good news that Jesus Christ died for our sins
and was raised from the dead according to the Scriptures, and that as the
reigning Lord he now offers the forgiveness of sins and the liberating gifts
of the Spirit to all who repent and believe. Our Christian presence in the
world is indispensable to evangelism, and so is that kind of dialogue whose
purpose is to listen sensitively in order to understand. But evangelism
itself is the proclamation of the historical, biblical Christ as Saviour and
Lord, with a view to persuading people to come to him personally and so be
reconciled to God. In issuing the gospel invitation we have no liberty to
conceal the cost of discipleship. Jesus still calls all who would follow him
to deny themselves, take up their cross, and identify themselves with his
new community. The results of evangelism include obedience to Christ,
incorporation into his Church and responsible service in the world. (I Cor.
15:3,4; Acts 2: 32-39; John 20:21; I Cor. 1:23; II Cor. 4:5; 5:11,20; Luke
14:25-33; Mark 8:34; Acts 2:40,47; Mark 10:43-45)

5. CHRISTIAN SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY

We affirm that God is both the Creator and the Judge of all men. We
therefore should share his concern for justice and reconciliation throughout
human society and for the liberation of men and women from every kind of
oppression. Because men and women are made in the image of God, every
person, regardless of race, religion, colour, culture, class, sex or age,
has an intrinsic dignity because of which he or she should be respected and
served, not exploited. Here too we express penitence both for our neglect
and for having sometimes regarded evangelism and social concern as mutually
exclusive. Although reconciliation with other people is not reconciliation
with God, nor is social action evangelism, nor is political liberation
salvation, nevertheless we affirm that evangelism and socio-political
involvement are both part of our Christian duty. For both are necessary
expressions of our doctrines of God and man, our love for our
neighbour and our obedience to Jesus Christ. The message of salvation
implies also a message of judgment upon every form of alienation, oppression
and discrimination, and we should not be afraid to denounce evil and
injustice wherever they exist. When people receive Christ they are born
again into his kingdom and must seek not only to exhibit but also to spread
its righteousness in the midst of an unrighteous world. The salvation we
claim should be transforming us in the totality of our personal and social
responsibilities. Faith without works is dead. (Acts 17:26,31; Gen. 18:25;
Isa. 1:17;
Psa. 45:7; Gen. 1:26,27; Jas. 3:9; Lev. 19:18; Luke 6:27,35; Jas. 2:14-26;
Joh. 3:3,5; Matt. 5:20; 6:33; II Cor. 3:18; Jas. 2:20)

6. THE CHURCH AND EVANGELISM

We affirm that Christ sends his redeemed people into the world as the Father
sent him, and that this calls for a similar deep and costly penetration of
the world. We need to break out of our ecclesiastical ghettos and permeate
non-Christian society. In the Church’s mission of sacrificial service
evangelism is primary. World evangelization requires the whole Church to
take the whole gospel to the whole world. The Church is at the very centre
of God’s cosmic purpose and is his appointed means of spreading the gospel.
But a church which preaches the cross must itself be marked by the cross. It
becomes a stumbling block to evangelism when it betrays the gospel or lacks
a living faith in God, a genuine love for people, or scrupulous honesty in
all things including promotion and finance. The church is the community of
God’s people rather than an institution, and must not be identified with any
particular culture, social or political system, or human ideology. (John
17:18; 20:21; Matt. 28:19,20; Acts 1:8; 20:27; Eph. 1:9,10; 3:9-11; Gal.
6:14,17; II Cor. 6:3,4; II Tim. 2:19-21; Phil. 1:27)

——————————

From: asotl@juno.com (Martin M Chow)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:47:40 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: PrayUSA! ’98 Asian Mobilization

DJ,

Thanks for helping me post this. Look forward to seeing you at the ATF
Summit on Monday. Have a pleasant and safe journey.
Martin
\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/

Dear CAC Forum members:

>From March 1 to April 9 of this year, America will be prayed for by
Christians worldwide as perhaps never before. Last year, more than
fifteen and a half million believers prayed and fasted for revival and
spiritual awakening in the U.S.A. throughout the month of April. This
culminated in the National Day of Prayer and Nationally Broadcast Concert
of Prayer on May 1.

As the newly-installed National Asian Coordinator for PrayUSA!, I
prayerfully hope to mobilize at least 30,000 intercessors among the
Asian-American Christian community (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Filipino,
Indonesian, Vietnamese, etc.) to pray and fast during the forty days of
prayer before Resurrection Sunday.

As all of us realize, our nation is in spiritual and moral trouble. And
only a nationwide revival can prepare America and her future generations
for the challenges of the 21st century.

To see that Asians are mobilized to pray is no small task. This is why I
humbly appeal for your assistance. I’m asking the Lord to raise up
mobilizers and coordinators in each Asian Christian ethnic group who will
inform and activate their networks about PrayUSA!, which constitutes a
broad, grassroots coalition of dedicated Christians across this land from
various denominational and socio-economic backgrounds who have a passion
to see a divine visitation come and transform our families, churches and
communities.

Currently, we have products available to assist in the process of prayer
mobilization.
These include a 40-day prayer calendar ($3.00 per dozen), an audio
calendar ($5.00 each), the PrayUSA! 98 Kit ($10.00) and the PrayUSA! ’98
Video ($15.00). If you wish to order these materials, we will fax you
the order form. Upon receipt of your completed form (by mail or fax) and
your check paid to “Metawake,” we wil lthen mail your order as soon as
possible.

If you are interested in ordering these materials and/or serving as an
intercessor, mobilizer, donor or setting up a temporary office in your
area (between January to May) to help spread the word about PrayUSA! 98,
please contact me at your earliest convenience!

Thank you and may God bless you richly throughout this new “year of the
tiger.”

Your co-servant in Christ,

Martin Mei-ta Chow
PrayUSA! ’98 National Asian Coordinator

Address: Metawake Revival & Evangelism, Inc.
P.O. Box 2214
Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91729-2214
Tel. 909-944-4963
Fax: 909-944-6339
Pgr: 909-457-2777
E-mail: (H) asotl@juno.com
(O) metawake@juno.com
Website: http://www.usprayertrack.org

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:47:43 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: AOL Biased Against Pro-life View…

Dear CACers:

FYI.

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————-
Attention Pro-Life America Online Users:
>From Steven Ertelt

AOL Biased Against Pro-Life View in Upcoming Roe v. Wade Forums
(Please forward to all pro-life people who subscribe to AOL!)

Starting January 19th, America Online will host a number of forums
concerning the 25th anniversary of Roe v. Wade. Planned events include
articles from leaders of national organizations as well as live events
with notable public figures.

Sounds good right? Not if you are someone who supports the right to life.
Consider the following list AOL has published of those who will have
featured articles on Roe v. Wade:

Articles from :
Wanda Franz, President, National Right to Life Committee
Kate Michelman, President, NARAL
Gloria Feldt, President, Planned Parenthood Federation of America
Frances Kissling, President, Catholics for Free Choice
Dr. Sig Linda Jacobson, Director of High Risk OB at OHSU

Only one of the first four notable figures listed maintains a pro-life
position. The fifth, Dr. Sig Linda Jacobson, MD, works in the
perinatology
division of the Oregon Health Sciences University. According to a 9/11/96
article in the Portland Oregonian newspaper, Dr. Jacobson “appeared at a
news conference [9/11/96] to defend” pro-abortion Congresswoman Elizabeth
Furse who had changed her mind to oppose a ban on partial-birth
abortions.

Thus, of the five invited to submit articles for publication in AOL’s
forum, four take a pro-abortion position!

If this is not enough, AOL is sponsoring several live events. AOL
published the following:

Live events include:
Kate Michelman, President of NARAL
Wednesday, January 21, 2-3 p.m.

Representative Chris Smith (R-NJ), the co-chairman of the House Pro-Life
Caucus, and Representative George Miller (D-CA), the Minority Whip at
Large and a staunch supporter of pro-choice. January 21, 5 – 6 p.m.

Catholics for Free Choice and National Right to Life Committe meet to
debate abortion rights on the anniversary of the Roe decision. Thursday,
January 22, 6-7 p.m..

Two of the events are debates between a pro-life and pro-abortion figure.
Yet Kate Michelman of the notorious pro-abortion group NARAL will appear
on AOL live for a full hour without opposition or views from a pro-life
advocate!

Please join me in courteously emailing AOL to let them know that we do
not
support their biased coverage of Roe v. Wade. Urge them to add an
additional pro-life figure in their live events and to allow others to
join the five who will be allowed to submit published articles.

AOL users can email The Great Debate, the AOL sub-section hosting the
forum, at the screen name “TGD Mail” (be sure to include the space) and
non-aol users can email AOL at TGD_Mail@aol.com. AOL users can also use
the “feedback” button at keyword “Great Debate.”

Let AOL know that it’s bias will not be tolerated. Further questions can
be directed to me, Steven Ertelt, at ertelt@prolife.org or
SErtelt@aol.com.

Below I have included a copy of my letter to AOL to use as a guide in
crafting your own:

Dear Great Debate,

I was excited to see that the Great Debate forum would include coverage
of
the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision next week. However, I am saddened
that one side, that favoring abortion, will receive most of the coverage.

In the section listing notable figures who will have articles published
on
the issue, only one of the five maintains a pro-life position. A full 80%
of all panelists support abortion. This is hardly a fair or objective
coverage of the issue.

Secondly, you list three live events with other notable figures. Two are
fair and equitable debates between advocates on both sides of the issue.
Yet Kate Michelman will receive one full hour of time unopposed by anyone
with a pro-life view. This amounts to three hours of views in support of
abortion and only two hours of views in support of the right to life.
Again, hardly objective.

AOL should strive to arrive at objective and equitable coverage of this
issue under the standard equal time doctrine. An equal number of articles
from both sides and an equal number of live participants from both sides
should have been scheduled. The current biased presentation is an error
in
judgment and a disservice to the AOL Community.

It is my hope that you will make a last-minute adjustment to your
schedule
and to your list of featured authors by contacting additional
representatives from the pro-life vantage point. I’m certain Wanda Franz
or Congressman Chris Smith could suggest credible representatives that
would enhance the exchange of information this forum intends to convey.

I appreciate your time in reading this letter and look forward to seeing
additional pro-life representatives listed.

Sincerely,
Steven Ertelt

(This document may be forwarded or reprinted for the benefit of pro-life
individuals provided it remains intact in its original form. This
document
represents the views of Steven Ertelt and not those of AOL or any other
organization and is to be used solely for the express purpose of
courteously contacting AOL concerning its coverage of the Roe v. Wade
issue. All information provided concerning AOL events was obtained
directly from AOL’s “Great Debate” newsletter.)
– ——————————–
End of [infonet-list] Digest #181
****************************
– ——— End forwarded message ———-

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:58:10 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Contacting AOL regarding bias

Dear CACers:

FYI.

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————-
Subject: Contacting AOL regarding bias

It has come to my attention that, when writing to AOL concerning its
recent bias against the pro-life position, the address TGD_Mail@aol.com
is
bouncing email back to some of you contacting AOL.

Normally, when an AOL Screen Name contains a space (as the screen name
TGD
Mail does) a _ is what should be placed where the space is located for
those not on AOL to send email to that screen name via the Internet. This
is done because most email applications consider an email address with a
space in it an invalid address. In this case, it appears that the _ may
not be functioning properly.

A few suggestions: If you have emailed a comment to TGD_Mail@aol.com and
it has bounced back to you, try resending your email to either
TGDMail@aol.com or TGD Mail@aol.com (the latter if your email program
will
let you send email to an email address with a space in it).

You may also contact AOL by using their feedback form at
http://www.aol.com/info/feedback.html
or by writing to them at AOL, PO Box 1559, Ogden UT 84401.

I cannot begin to reply to all of you who have emailed me concerning the
issue of AOL’s concerning its upcoming events. I appreciate each of you
who have take the time to contact AOL with your polite complaint
regarding
their bias.

For their lives,
Steven Ertelt
– —
Infonet List is a daily compilation of pro-life news and educational
information. To subscribe, send the message “subscribe” to:
infonet-list-request@prolife.org. To unsubscribe send the message
“unsubscribe” to the same address. For more pro-life information visit
the Ultimate Pro-Life Resource List at http://www.prolife.org/ultimate
and for questions or additional information, email
infonet-mod@prolife.org

– ——— End forwarded message ———-

——————————

From: Ken Fong
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:32:41 -0800
Subject: CAC_Mail: Trying to locate Pastor Steve Wong in Palo Alto

Brother Steve:

I know you’ve emailed me before, but I’ve misplaced your address. I
know that you’re starting an AsiAm church in Palo Alto soon and I’d like
to pass on the name of one of our parishioners to you who’s moving to
San Jose in about a month and looking for a church like ours. Please
email me back this week and I’ll pass on her info so you can contact her
directly. thanks.

ken fong
evergreen baptist church of LA.

——————————

From: ben_mel@juno.com (Benjamin C Wong)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:47:32 EST
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Feed the Sheep

In response to Ray;

Thanks for your stimulating thots. I think I understand what you are
driving at but I hope the intent of the posting is not lost in dealing
with these thots.

You wrote, ” In the early church there was no “the pastor” who taught
publicly as the only voice of the congregation in the way our present
clergy do. [Is this sin? (Ben’s question)] Each congregation had
PASTORS rather than “the pastor.” These pastors were for the most part
unpaid servants who led the congregation but had
not “been to seminary” to learn “how to preach.”

In the early church there were apostles. These were position / office
that were held, given, in the case of the twelve, by Christ. There is
also the office of elders. There is also the gift of apostles, which is
a function. There is also the gift of pastor and teacher, which is a
function. An elder may not be a pastor (in function). But (I think) a
pastor should be an elder. An elder may be a pastor, especially if he
has that gift. An apostle may also be a pastor. A pastor is not an
office. A pastor is one (elder) who has the function / responsibility of
pastoring. I believe that the early church had only two offices; elders
and deacons.

With that said, what Scriptural basis is there that churches only had
pastorS and that a church cannot have only one pastor?

I think that the concept of supporting servants of the Lord is consistent
with support that Paul had received and other apostles of Christ was
receiving.

Is formal theological education the problem? Paul had a formal school in
Ephesus.
Is being taught “to preach” the problem? Yes, that is no basis to go to
seminary. But to sit under the teaching of godly mature Christians,
whether formal of personal, is one of the best way to grow in one’s
faith. Just because many seminary has gone astray and are more
detrimental to the Church doesn’t make its concept evil.

You also wrote; “The earliest church continued stedfastly in “the
apostles’ doctrine,
in fellowship, in shared food, and in prayer.” An overemphasis on
DOCTRINE overlooks the fact that grammar links EQUAL things with the
conjunction AND.”

The emphasis on DOCTRINE is because it is the area that is not equal with
the rest. Our churches’ need in this day are elders (who has the
function of pastor) who are being diligent to teach and exhort with sound
doctrine.

This other statement suggest what is not true; “Chuck Swindoll is right
about many things. But that does not make him right on everything.”

I do not believe that Mr. Swindoll is right on everything, nor am I
trying to say that.. There may even be some things I’m not sure I would
say in the article, but in the subject and concern of this article he is
right on!

One other thot; it would be wonderful if many of God’s people are
studying and learning the Word of God; that many are growing in maturity
and being equipped for service. But that is not so. There are so few.
There are even so many who has the function to pastor who are not mature
nor growing in the knowledge of God and the Word of God. This was the
main exhortation and the limitation of the article.

Thanks for the challenges.

Yours in Christ,

Ben

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:37:49 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: FYI: HP & Bill Gates

Dear GE:

Thanks for your thoughtful concerns & questions in response
to a previous post on HP & Bill Gates. I apologize for the delay
in writing back.

Here are some of my thoughts on this issue & on boycotts specifically.

God does not lead all believers in the same way regarding boycotts. Some
may feel led to avoid certain companies rather than others for their
particular
reasons. Others may not care at all where they spend or invest their
monies.

Those who participate in boycotts & those who don’t participate should
act according to their convictions & do so by faith.

For those who do participate in boycotts, it is possible to be spread out
too thinly. There are many companies that sponsor offensive programming
or donate to questionable charities. It would be wise to focus on only a
few to
start with. Otherwise it may be too overwhelming. It is a small
sacrifice of sorts
to spend the time & energy to change one’s financial habits but no one
said
obedience would be convenient.

I feel that believers have a responsibility of biblical stewardship
in the use of all resources given so freely by the Lord. This includes
all
areas starting from Lordship (submission of our lives & wills in
obedience)
and working its way to how we use our time, energy, gifts, talents,
education,
careers, material belongings, finances, etc.

In the arena of finances, believers need to exercise wisdom as to “if,
why, what,
when, how, & from whom” purchases &/or investments are to be made.
Again,
how we use the “dollar” is a strong hint of how one’s priorities are in
alignment
with God’s priorities. Part of that decision-making process includes
prayer
& a gathering of information, personal & otherwise.

I submit that part of the information to consider when buying, selling,
or investing
includes items such as: 1) who the business entity is & 2) how it uses
its profits
through corporate donations, media advertisements, etc.

The goal is not so much to “war” against companies disagreed with but
more
of exercising a believer’s responsibility to wisely use “mammon” in ways
which
help to further His Kingdom & His values.

I agree that certain products or services offer few alternatives if
boycotts are attempted.
Perhaps a starting point would be prayer, then a courteous letter to that
company to
express your concerns. Share with other like-minded individuals of your
concerns
& invite them to also write letters. Some companies are responsive to
the complaints
of involved consumers.

In Him,
J. Chang

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:42:39 -0700 “GE Liang”
writes:

>Any suggestions as to what to do? Does the culture war now require a
>boycott of
>HP and Mr. Gates?=b
>I saw no ideas at the prolife.org site.
>
>HP is pretty expendable: there are better makers of desktop computers
>and fairly
>comparable makers of laser printers.
>
>Does Mr. Gates translate to Microsoft?
>Microsoft is more difficult to boycott: their operating systems have
>no substantial
>competition. Individually, their application programs aren’t the
>best. But, there
>is a advantageous synergy among many of their products. Are there
>other ways to
>get Mr. Gates’ attention?

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:36:52 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Re: Fwd: Hard Choices

Brother Stephen:

Thanks for bringing the article to our attention. Sorry for the delay
in replying. It is certainly disturbing to read about the pervasiveness
of abortion in our culture. Even sadder still is the lack of response
within the Church to mobilize any focused attempts to provide long-
term solutions to this problem. I pray that believers will be terribly
disturbed…extremely disturbed… about abortion, to the point
where there is a genuine but desperate calling upon Him for
mercy upon the Body, His Church.

Regarding the U.S New article, it is unashamedly slanted towards
the pro-abortion perspective. What else is new in the media?

Notice how the article presumed that abortions were “safe.” There’s
no mention of the women who have died or have been seriously injured
while undergoing a so-called “safe” abortion. There’s no investigation
into
why there’s a lack of federal/state safety/health regulations of abortion
clinics.
(A book called _Lime 5…._ by Mark Crutcher gives an inside view into
some
of the unsafe, unsanitary, impersonal, money-seeking conditions of
certain
abortionists working in their abortionariums.)

The testimonies of the women who have undergone abortions were skewed
towards the pro-abortion viewpoints. One reported it as not being very
painful.
Why not also have a testimony of one being very painful as many have
experienced?
Many who have had abortions suffered eventual emotional, psychological,
spiritual,
& physical scars afterwards. (A book called _Aborted Women_ by David C.
Reardon
surveys women all over the country & tells of their riveting stories.)

There was no mention of the social, economic, & demographic costs of
abortion
to our society. (A book called _The Cost of Abortion: An Analysis of the
Social,
Economic, & Demographic Effects of Abortion…_ by Lawrence J. Roberge
covers that issue.)

Medical researchers believe that fetuses beyond a certain # of weeks old
(I forget
offhand) DO feel pain. However, in the article, an abortion clinic
operator made a
claim that fetuses do not feel pain. That assertion was accepted as fact
& remained
uncontested.

It’s no wonder that the general public is so divided about the issue of
abortion.
There is a significant “truth in advertising” gap within the
media-at-large. If the public
only knew the truth about abortion, laws & cultural attitudes would
eventually change.
Just as smoking is now negatively stimatized in American society once the
truth about
its health hazards has been revealed & widely disseminated so the truth
about abortion
must be also uncovered.

Let’s keep working & praying for the Truth to be known.

In Him,
J. Chang

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:41:54 EST SKYLeung writes:
>
>Brother J,
>
>Did you see this in U.S. News and World Report? The statistics are
>quite
>disturbing!
>
>In Christ,
>Stephen
>
>http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/abort.htm
>
>Hard Choices
>Abortions in America: So many have them, so few discuss them
>
>BY STEVEN WALDMAN, ELISE ACKERMAN, AND RITA RUBIN
>
>The statistic is astonishing: 43 percent of American women will have
>an
>abortion in their lifetime, if current rates are sustained. That would
>mean that, for better or worse, abortion is as common a life
>experience
>for women as divorce–and more than three times more common than
>breast
>cancer. It would mean that more than twice as many women have
>abortions as
>get college degrees. It would mean that 25 years after Roe v. Wade,
>abortions are safe, legal, and not rare.
>————————————————————————
> Copyright U.S. News & World Report, Inc. All rights reserved.

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:47:26 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Update on Pro-Abortion Bias

Dear CACers:

FYI.

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————–
Update on Pro-Abortion Bias in AOL Forum
from Steven Ertelt

Today America Online launched the special week-long forum on Roe
v. Wade. As I previously announced, AOL had a glaring bias in favor of
the
pro-abortion position in terms of the guests participating in their live
events and the authors invited to write short articles.

I spoke with Christian Polking today, a staff member in the
communications department at National Right to Life. Christian had
previously been working with AOL on securing NRLC President Wanda Franz
as
a participant in one of the AOL live events and in submitting an article
for publication in the AOL Great Debate forum on abortion. Polking
confirmed that AOL had indeed made a legitimate effort to contact other
right to life leaders who for one reason or another were not able to
participate. Although taking this effort, AOL should have continued to
attempt, as well as made it known it attempted, to secure an even number
of representatives on both sides. Fortunately, according to Polking,
another pro-life representative may be scheduled at the last minute to
oppose NARAL President Kate Michelman, who was previously scheduled
unopposed for one hour.

The previous reports of the bias in the article published in the
Great Debate forum still hold true. This afternoon, published articles
from notables on both sides run *six to two in favor of the pro-abortion
side.* Moreover, the AOL forum initially listed *three* of the
pro-abortion articles *twice* in the selection menu of all articles.
After
I notified them, I noticed it corrected a few hours later.

Articles on the pro-abortion side included Dr. Jacobson (a
pro-abortion doctor from Oregon), NARAL, “Catholics” for a Free Choice, a
worker at an Illinois abortion facility, a story from the mother of Becky
Bell (see recent Infonet article for information), Planned Parenthood,
and
a story from a woman who claims she had an illegal abortion with
complications prior to Roe v. Wade. The last story along with the one
from NARAL and the Illinois activist were the ones listed twice in the
menu bar.

This evening when I checked the forum again, the duplicate
listings were removed. Additionally, the article by the Illinois abortion
facility employee had been removed and it is place a *second* and
different article from Kate Michelman – one listed under her name and
another listed under the NARAL moniker. No other author has two articles
published.

Only two articles appear from pro-life sources. One from NRLC
President Wanda Franz and a second from pro-life Congressman Asa
Hutchison
(R-AR). Neither of these articles appeared more than one time.

AOL has also included articles from AOL subscribers under a
standard forum section called “IMHO” (In My Honest Opinion). Fortunately,
these articles were fairly balanced between those who favored the
right-to-life and those opposed. I am particularly excited as AOL chose
for publication a brief article I submitted.

Finally, the senior producer for Great Debate contacted me. She
noted the high volume of complaint emails you have been generating and
said she hoped the week did not turn into a debate about the forum
instead
of debating about abortion. She offered no insight as to AOL’s attempt to
rectify these glaring disparities.

ACTION ITEM: The letter-writing campaign to AOL should continue. If you
have written once before, write again using this new information. If you
have not written, please do so now.

To contact AOL, AOL subscribers can email “TGD Mail” or use the
feedback function under the keyword “Great Debate.” Non-AOL users can
email TGD Mail@aol.com (if your email program allows spaces in the email
address) or use the feedback form located at
http://www.aol.com/info/feedback.html

Additionally, the Senior Producer for the Great Debate forum can
be reached at: CLempres@aol.com

In your letter, be sure to do the following: a) Thank AOL for
attempting to contact additional pro-life representatives, b) Thank AOL
for publishing a balanced number of articles from AOL subscribers, c)
express your displeasure with AOL for still having an unbalanced number
of
participants in life events, and d) express your displeasure with AOL for
publishing a strongly unbalanced number of articles from notables. Please
write your letter in a courteous fashion. Dozens of you have sent me
copies of your letters and a few of them have been very rude. Please
write
respectfully as you are representing the pro-life position when you do.

– ——— End forwarded message ———-

——————————

From: JERRY_HWANG@HP-USA-om31.om.hp.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:22:39 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: FYI: HP & Bill Gates

Hi everyone,

As one who works for HP, maybe I can shed some light on this issue.
Every year, we as employees are given a “survey” of sorts where we get
to choose which charities we personally want to donate to (out of our
paycheck). On this survey are organizations like Planned Parenthood,
but also ministry organizations which sponsor youth work in East Palo
Alto, for example. So, basically my point is that in HP’s case,
supporting an organization like Planned Parenthood is ultimately a
choice of individual employees, and the fact that HP would officially
support such an organization reflects widespread employee sentiment
(and not just a management decision). Hope this helps and let me know
if you have any more questions.

Your brother,
– Jerry

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: FYI: HP & Bill Gates
Author: Non-HP-jtc10 (jtc10@juno.com) at HP-USA/o2=shargw4
Date: 1/21/98 2:37 AM

Dear GE:

Thanks for your thoughtful concerns & questions in response
to a previous post on HP & Bill Gates. I apologize for the delay
in writing back.

Here are some of my thoughts on this issue & on boycotts specifically.

God does not lead all believers in the same way regarding boycotts. Some
may feel led to avoid certain companies rather than others for their
particular
reasons. Others may not care at all where they spend or invest their
monies.

Those who participate in boycotts & those who don’t participate should
act according to their convictions & do so by faith.

For those who do participate in boycotts, it is possible to be spread out
too thinly. There are many companies that sponsor offensive programming
or donate to questionable charities. It would be wise to focus on only a
few to
start with. Otherwise it may be too overwhelming. It is a small
sacrifice of sorts
to spend the time & energy to change one’s financial habits but no one
said
obedience would be convenient.

I feel that believers have a responsibility of biblical stewardship
in the use of all resources given so freely by the Lord. This includes
all
areas starting from Lordship (submission of our lives & wills in
obedience)
and working its way to how we use our time, energy, gifts, talents,
education,
careers, material belongings, finances, etc.

In the arena of finances, believers need to exercise wisdom as to “if,
why, what,
when, how, & from whom” purchases &/or investments are to be made.
Again,
how we use the “dollar” is a strong hint of how one’s priorities are in
alignment
with God’s priorities. Part of that decision-making process includes
prayer
& a gathering of information, personal & otherwise.

I submit that part of the information to consider when buying, selling,
or investing
includes items such as: 1) who the business entity is & 2) how it uses
its profits
through corporate donations, media advertisements, etc.

The goal is not so much to “war” against companies disagreed with but
more
of exercising a believer’s responsibility to wisely use “mammon” in ways
which
help to further His Kingdom & His values.

I agree that certain products or services offer few alternatives if
boycotts are attempted.
Perhaps a starting point would be prayer, then a courteous letter to that
company to
express your concerns. Share with other like-minded individuals of your
concerns
& invite them to also write letters. Some companies are responsive to
the complaints
of involved consumers.

In Him,
J. Chang

On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:42:39 -0700 “GE Liang”
writes:

>Any suggestions as to what to do? Does the culture war now require a
>boycott of
>HP and Mr. Gates?=b
>I saw no ideas at the prolife.org site.
>
>HP is pretty expendable: there are better makers of desktop computers
>and fairly
>comparable makers of laser printers.
>
>Does Mr. Gates translate to Microsoft?
>Microsoft is more difficult to boycott: their operating systems have
>no substantial
>competition. Individually, their application programs aren’t the
>best. But, there
>is a advantageous synergy among many of their products. Are there
>other ways to
>get Mr. Gates’ attention?

——————————

From: ohbrudder
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:04:56 -0800
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ

To CACers,
Just happen to be re-reading “Power Through Prayer” by EM Bounds
again after a couple of decades. . .I found his remarks relevant to a
couple of topics on CAC of recent times, coincidently.

Some excepts: “We are constantly on a stretch . . .to devise new
methods, new plans, new organizations to advance the Church . . .
God’s plan is to make much of the man . . .Men are God’s method.
The Church is looking for better methods; God is looking for better
men.

2 Chron. 16:9
For the eyes of the Lord range throughout the earth to strengthen
those whose hearts are fully committed to him.

“What the Church needs to-day is not more machinery or better,
not new organizations or more and novel methods, but men whom
the Holy Ghost can use–men of prayer, men mighty in prayer. The
Holy Ghost does not flow through methods, but through men.

blessings,

bill leong

ohbrudder wrote:
>
> 1. Begin with a PERSON called by God to ABCs who
> will speak fearlessly with authority as sent from God.
> One who knows God and can make Him known.
> God always finds a man to carry out His redemptive
> plan and missions. . .Abraham, Moses, Philip, Barnabas,
> Epaphroditus, etc.
> Christ was sent to seek and save that which is lost
> but was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, Mt.15.24
> Paul was sent to the Gentiles, Ro.15.15,16
>
> Might you be called to the lost ABC sheep of America?
> Be assured of this: the enemy will try to slay the
> shepherd to scatter the sheep or otherwise wreak his
> havoc a myriad of ways. . .he may even try to
> stop you before you get started as he attempted with
> Moses and Jesus. In any case you will pay a price. . .
> after all, it is warfare!
>
> 2. Begin with a CORE group of believers sold out to Christ
> and committed to each other. [The way a believer
> gives and tithes is indicative of the depth of his devotion]
> Disciple them so that they believe what you believe to
> have a unity of faith, commitment to the same vision, etc
> Do everything you can to teach them to love one another as
> Christ has loved them. . .
> “so the world will know you are my disciples”
> Christ started with 12; He prayed all night before He
> chose them . . .must be important.
>
> 3. Seek and obtain God’s VISION for the church. Without
> a vision the people perish . . .the church becomes
> aimless and lifeless, without direction and motivation.
> There may be many programs and activities, but they are
> recipes for busyness and burnout. What is
> successful for other churches is not likely to be
> successful for you. . .don’t look to WillowCreek,
> ExplosionEvangelism, Saddleback, etc unless the
> Lord gives you that vision . . .look to the Lord.
> In your seeking, seek the Father’s heart for ABCs.
> I bet you’ll find His passion and compassion that
> He will pass on to you along with His vision.
> And note the numerous times Jesus is moved
> by compassion before He heals and preaches
> . . .compassion preceding ministry.
> Remember as you seek, He will give you
> His vision not to merely build a glorious church
> but because He loves ABCs and is not
> willing that any should perish. However,
> an outcome will be a glorious church.
>
> 4. Make corporate WORSHIP a top priority in
> the body life of the church. Worship is the most
> important, highest, greatest spiritual activity of the
> church. That makes the worship leader the most
> important person in leadership next to the pastor .
> Isaiah 61:11
> “For as the soil makes the sprout come up
> and a garden causes seeds to grow,
> so the Sovereign Lord will make righteousness and
> praise spring up before all nations.”
>
> Singspiration is not worship; neither is singing holy
> hymns in a holy sanctuary. True worship ( in spirit
> and truth) is like fellowship with the Spirit; there is
> closeness and mutual giving . . .our giving to God
> in offerings, praises, thanksgiving, adoration,
> expressions of our hearts given to Him (which could
> involve songs, hymns, money, prayers). . . and
> Christ in the midst of His people (2 or 3 gathered
> in His name) gives back—He will not be outgiven.
> He gives His manifested presence . . .and wherever
> His presence, there is power, there is healing,
> there is fullness of joy and peace. It is like heaven!
>
> GOD IS IN THE HOUSE!
> Wherever Jesus went, people sought Him and
> followed Him. He was an attraction in Himself.
> His body, the church, is meant to represent Him,
> be like Him and do the things He did.
> The world should be able to see Christ in His
> Church because of His presence, beauty, and
> power in the house. People will break thru the
> roof to get in! Even ABCs today need and
> want what Jesus has to offer. . .and they
> can and will be attracted to God thru His people
> who knows how to worship and show forth the
> glory of Christ.
>
> 5. As the focus of worship is God, there ought
> to be intercessory PRAYER to focus on people,
> for the souls and needs of ABCs, love ones,
> friends, enemies. . .specific prayer for specific
> individuals, not “God please save the world!”
>
> If the church will pray, the church will grow.
> Rely on prayer more than programs. If a church
> gets 10% percent of its members to prayer meeting,
> every week, its considered doing well. I don’t think
> so. There ought to be a 75% turnout every week . . .
> and its exciting and the church comes alive!
> And only life beget life. (75% is not hard if
> the above 4 parts are in place)
>
> And GOD WILL ADD to your number all who
> are being saved (Acts 2)!
>
> It is hard to accept the sovereignty of God because
> we want to move before He moves . . .sometimes it
> seems like He is doing nothing to save our generation.
> We may even think He is waiting for us–in a way He is.
> But it is more like us not waiting on Him.
> However, even now,
> God is moving in many of our hearts who love Him and
> love our people…He must too because He made so many
> of us. I think that just because there are
> so many like you in CAC, who have been moved to
> speak forth your heart in concern for ABCs is evidence
> God is not doing nothing! He is doing something and
> He will break forth like a flood!
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> bill leong

——————————

From: ohbrudder
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:09:19 -0800
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Demographics

To Ben and CACers,

Just so happen I found EM Bounds remarks so apt for your comments.

“The character as well as the fortunes of the gospel is committed to
the preacher. He makes or mars the message from God. . .The man
makes the preacher. God must make the man. . .

“The man, the whole man, lies behind the sermon. Preaching is not
the performance of an hour. It is the outflow of a life. It takes 20
years
to make a sermon, because it takes 20 years to make the man. The
true sermon is a thing of life. . .The sermon is forceful because the
man is forceful. The sermon is holy because the man is holy.
The sermon is full of the divine unction because the man is full of the
divine unction. . .

“Preachers are not sermon makers, but men makers and saint makers,
and he only is well-trained for this business who has made himself
a man and saint.

“The real sermon is made in the closet. The man–God’s man–is made
in the closet. His life and his profoundest convictions were born in
his secret communion with God . . .

“The pulpit of this day is weak in praying. The pride of learning is
against the dependent humility of prayer. Prayer is with the pulpit
too often only official–a performance for the rountine of service.

bill leong

Benjamin C Wong wrote:
>
> Hi;
>
> Why do we think ABC and OBC Christians are leaving the Chinese Churches
> mainly because of cultural incompatibilities, or lack of involvements
> politically or socially, or failure to meet cultural needs, or have a
> “comfort zone”? The first century church did not get or keep its members
> by considering these things.
>
> I believe that the Christian who is looking for more than socializing,
> who is hungry to grow spiritually, to deepen his walk with God; (he) is
> leaving because the church is anemic in its preaching and teaching of the
> Word. He is not being fed spiritually. The church need to have pastors
> and teachers who knows and teach the Scriptures, not teaching sociology,
> civil rights, the ills and solutions of race discrimination, etc.
>
> Is this over-simplified?
>
> How about a discussion on the concept of the “church”, local and
> universal; on para-church organization; and how these concepts should
> affect Chinese churches? I’ll throw in my 2 cents when I get a chance.
>
> Ben

——————————

From: Pira P Tritasavit
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:17:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: CAC_Mail: Concert – Northern California Area

SOURCE OF THE JAM MINISTRIES PRESENTS…

LIVING STONES MUSIC ARTIST…

“STEVE MORIYA & BAND”
(sharing original material from his recording, “TRUSTING WITH TEARS”)

with guests & local band “MERE IMAGE”

IN CONCERT @ SEA VIEW BAPTIST CHURCH (PACIFICA, California)

THIS SATURDAY, JANUARY 24TH @ 7:00 PM

COST: $4.00 DONATION (at the door…no tickets)

– —————————————————————–

INFO CONTACT: PASTOR BRYAN FERRETTI (650) 359 5405 AND/OR
http://WWW.GEOCITIES.COM/~STEVEMORIYA

– ————————————————————–

WHO IS STEVE MORIYA?

Steve started on his music interests when he received his first guitar as
his high school graduation present. He came to know the Lord in his
senior year of high school and has been serving Him at a local church in
Southern California ever since.

After years of playing for local church groups, leading worship and
gaining a love for ministry in music, Steve decided to take a step
towards a more serious level of ministry. This involved his relationship
with music producer, Brian Min. Teaming up with other talented
lyricists, they hope to combine Steve’s musical style and personality
with lyrics that make an impact. Steve enjoys playing for all types of
groups, including churches, Bible study groups and camps. He is serious
about the privilege of performing his original material as a ministry
that God has given to him.
While possessing a unique personality and charisma that attracts people
of all ages, he blends in humor and spontaneity to make his ministry a
fun and enjoyable time of encouragement and fellowship.

– —————————————————————

DIRECTIONS TO STEVE MORIYA CONCERT:

HIGHWAY 1 SOUTH INTO PACIFICA

LEFT ON LINDA MAR BLVD (LIGHT)

RIGHT ON ADOBE DRIVE (LIGHT)

LEFT ON ROSITA ROAD (STOP SIGN)

RIGHT ON PEREZ DRIVE (STOP SIGN)

SEA VIEW BAPTIST CHURCH — 1450 PEREZ DRIVE

– ————————————————————————–

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:23:49 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: FYI: HP

Dear Jerry:

I appreciate your thoughts & clarification on this issue, especially
coming from the inside of Hewlett-Packard. This is a more sensitive
situation as this is your vocation & I certainly don’t want to put your
job
on the line.

>From what you described, HP employees can use their PERSONAL funds
to donate to Planned Parenthood. However, from what I understand,
would it be fair to say that HP also donates CORPORATE funds of its
own to Planned Parenthood. Can you also comment on that as a HP
insider?

You are also in a strategic setting as a HP employee. I wonder if some
of your fellow co-workers share similar concerns to the point where
some change can be effected from the inside.

Thanks for helping to shed some light!

In Him,
J. Chang

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:22:39 -0500 JERRY_HWANG@HP-USA-om31.om.hp.com
writes:
> As one who works for HP, maybe I can shed some light on this
>issue.
> Every year, we as employees are given a “survey” of sorts where
>we get
> to choose which charities we personally want to donate to (out of
>our
> paycheck). On this survey are organizations like Planned
>Parenthood,
> but also ministry organizations which sponsor youth work in East
>Palo
> Alto, for example. So, basically my point is that in HP’s case,
> supporting an organization like Planned Parenthood is ultimately a
> choice of individual employees, and the fact that HP would
>officially
> support such an organization reflects widespread employee
>sentiment
> (and not just a management decision). Hope this helps and let me
>know
> if you have any more questions.

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:27:21 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Fwd: Dr. James Dobson’s Statement on `Roe v. Wade’ 25th…

Dear CACers:

FYI. I couldn’t have said it any better.

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————-
Subject: Fwd: Dr. James Dobson’s Statement on `Roe v. Wade’ 25th…

Dr. James Dobson’s Statement on `Roe v. Wade’ 25th Anniversary

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo., Jan. 21 /PRNewswire/ — As Sen. John Ashcroft’s
Subcommittee on the Constitution holds a hearing today on Capitol Hill to
evaluate the 25 years of “Roe v. Wade,” James C. Dobson, Ph.D., president
of
Focus on the Family, released the following statement:

“Tomorrow will be a national day of mourning for millions of families who
have
been hurt by abortion. ‘Roe v. Wade’ is not only bad law, but a
perversion of
medicine and the source of, as Mother Teresa said, ‘the greatest
destroyer of
peace today.’

“I will be joining with thousands of church congregations across the
nation to
pray this week for the end to the violence ‘Roe v. Wade’ sanctions. What
has
been ‘Roe v. Wade’s’ legacy over these last twenty-five years?

* A skyrocketing incidence of abused, abandoned, neglected and mistreated
children even though radical feminists told us that abortion would make
every
baby wanted and loved. What ‘Roe v. Wade’ actually did was cheapen life
at
every stage of development.

* The continued victimization and exploitation of women by abortionists.
Millions of post-abortive women have suffered physically, emotionally and
psychologically from an abortion industry that lied to them.

* The brutal death of 30 million sons, daughters and grandchildren whose
lives
were taken in the name of personal freedom and autonomy.

“The good news over the last twenty-five years is the growing strength of
the
national network of women’s help centers that give women better options
than
death for their unborn children. I applaud the post-abortive women who
volunteer at these centers for giving mothers the truth and practical
assistance so that they can carry their babies to term.

“I share a vision with others in the pro-life movement of a culture
without
abortion, where the value of motherhood and the respect for human life is
restored and where the personhood of unborn children is once again
recognized
in our law. Even if it takes another twenty-five years to achieve that
goal,
I pray that such a day will come.”

Focus on the Family has placed full-page newspaper ads this week marking
“Roe
v. Wade’s” anniversary in “USA Today,” “The Washington Post,” and “The
Washington Times.” This week’s Focus on the Family daily radio
broadcasts are
also devoted to celebrating the sanctity of human life. The broadcast
reaches
3-5 million listeners.

Founded in 1977 by child psychologist and best-selling author James C.
Dobson,
Ph.D., Focus on the Family is a nonprofit Christian organization
committed to
strengthening the emotional, psychological and spiritual health of
children
and their families in the U.S. and throughout the world.

– ——— End forwarded message ———-

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:34:11 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Further Update on Bias in AOL Abortion Forum

Dear CACers:

FYI. Your letters are helping. Thank you!

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————
Further Update on Bias in AOL Abortion Forum,

Tuesday afternoon I conversed with one of the producers of the
forum on AOL concerning abortion. Apparently hundreds of you are flooding
them with letters expressing your outrage with the bias in the AOL Great
Debate forum on abortion.

In fairness to those running the forum, they have attempted to
help balance the presentation. Today, Chris Smith will be able to have
one
hour alone to present his views, offsetting the one hour Kate Michelman
will receive by herself. AOL has also added a new article, by pro-life
Congressman Dr. Tom Coburn (R-OK) and added pro-life spokeswoman and
former abortion facility director Carol Everett to the list of live
events. Everett is also expected to have an article published along with
others written by notable figures on both sides of the issue. Currently
the list of articles stances at 7-3 in favor of the pro-abortion
position.

I’m told the forum will continue for another week after this. I
don’t know at this time what other articles or live events may be added
to
the current schedule.

The current schedule for live events is as follows:

Today: 2-3 pm EST – Kate Michelman, NARAL President.
Today: 5-6 pm EST – Pro-life Congressman Chris Smith
Thursday: 6-7 pm EST – Debate between Wanda Franz, NRLC President and
the
head of “Catholics” for a Free Choice
Thursday: 9-10 pm EST – Pro-life spokeswoman Carol Everett

AOL subscribers can go to Keyword: Great Debate to find these events. If
you have further questions, direct them to me at Sertelt@aol.com.

ACTION ITEM: At this time, I am not urging further letters to AOL. They
have gotten the message that we are not happy with the bias and have
begun
taking steps to correct it. I’m concerned that further letters would only
serve to anger them. If you do choose to write, thank them for their
progress in trying to find additional pro-life articles and
representatives to participate in the live events. Politely, urge them to
continue correcting the bias in the number of articles written by notable
public figures. And please, I cannot underscore this enough, refrain from
using inflammatory remarks, threats, or rude or sarcastic tones. I’ve
been
told a number of letters written in such a way have been received. Such
letters are not helping, but hurting these efforts. Again, to contact the
producers, AOL users can email TGD Mail and the address TGDMail@aol.com
does work fine for those not on AOL.

I look forward to seeing some of you at the upcoming AOL Live Events.

For their lives,
Steven Ertelt

– ——— End forwarded message ———-

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:29:55 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: FYI: HP & Bill Gates

Dear MMC:

I appreciate your encouragement on a recent post! May we all
continue to spur one another on towards greater Christlikeness.

In Him,
J. Chang

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:35:15 EST MChowAACF writes:
>THanks for the write-up…best presentation on how to deal with
>boycotts and
>our Christian perspective in a while.
>
>MMC:)
>

——————————

From: TSTseng
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:34:54 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Asian Church Conference (No. Cal.)

CACers:

Please note the following announcement. – Tim Tseng, President, Asian
American Baptist Caucus

==========

ASIAN CHURCH CONFERENCE
sponsored by American Baptist Seminary of the West in cooperation with the No.
Cal. American Baptist Asian Caucus

Saturday, Feb. 21, 1998 (9:00 AM -3:30 PM)

at the Shell Ridge Community Church
200 La Casa Via, Walnut Creek, California 94598 (510) 935-3250

• Sharing what is happening in the Asian congregations in our Region.
• Hearing 1998 program proposals from Caucus officers.
• Consideration of the Theme: “Where Will Pastoral Leadership for Our Asian
Churches Come From?”

To Register: contact your (Asian American Baptist) pastor…

A freewill offering will be received at the conference to cover the cost of
lunch.

Pastor or contact person: Deadline for registration, Wed., Feb. 18th. Call
ABSW, 2606 Dwight Way, Berkeley, CA 94704-3029, (510) 841-1905, FAX (510)
841-2446 or email Dr. James Chuck at Jaschuck@juno.com.

Questions? Conference Coordinator: Dr. James Chuck, ABSW (510) 841-1905 or
Jaschuck@juno.com. Chairperson for No. Cal. Asian Caucus, Lawrence Chow (415)
756-3308 or lchow@email.his.ucsf.edu.

——————————

From: TSTseng
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:35:37 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Evangelism Course

Greetings CACers:

It’s been a while since I’ve posted – enjoyed lurking, however. Sounds like
J. Chang’s activism is growing stronger – always good to have Christians
engaging public policy issues (though I disagree with some of the positions
presented).

Anyway, I’ve been busy teaching, researching, and writing. I’m just about
finished with a two week intensive course on Evangelism in Post-modern
America. The students and I have had such a good time that they’ve asked me
to teach it again. So, I’ve attached a copy of the syllabus and would welcome
suggestions for additional readings and any other comments for a future
course. – Tim Tseng

=============
Colgate-Rochester Divinity School
Bexley Hall
St. Bernard’s Institute
Crozer Theological Seminary

Evangelism in Post-modern America
January 1998

PT-EA 330

Instructor: Rev. Dr. Timothy Tseng

Office Hours (Room 302):
Tues., Jan. 13 (9:30 – 11:45 AM)
Wed., Jan. 14 (12:00 – 2:00 PM
Thurs., Jan. 15 (12:00 – 2:00 PM)
Fri., Jan. 16 (12:00 – 2:00 PM)
Tues., Jan. 20 (9:30 – 11:45 AM)
Wed., Jan. 21 (12:00 – 2:00 PM
Thurs., Jan. 22 (12:00 – 2:00 PM)
Fri., Jan. 23 (12:00 – 2:00 PM)
or by appointment

OFF: (716) 271-1320, ext. 260
FAX: (716) 271-8013
RES: (716) 482-5358
Email: tstseng@aol.com, ttseng@crds.edu
———
Evangelism in Post-modern America

Tony Campolo is a popular teacher, writer, and speaker. He once made a
trip to Honolulu that he has referred to on more than one occasion. Suffering
from jet lag, Campolo found himself wide awake and hungry at 3:30 in the
morning. He left his hotel to find something to eat and discovered an all-
night diner with stools and a counter. The man behind the counter wiped his
hands on a grease-stained apron and asked, “What will you have?”
“Just a cup of coffee and a doughnut,” replied Campolo. Suddenly a group
of eight or nine boisterous women burst in the door and sat down on the stools
along the counter, laughing and talking. Realizing they were prostitutes,
Campolo started thinking about a way to make
n seated next to him said, “Tomorrow’s my
birthday; I’ll be thirty-nine.” From down the counter, another woman said,
“Big deal! So what do you want? A cake, a party, somebody singing ‘Happy
Birthday’?”
“I’m not asking for anything,” she said. “I’ve never had a birthday
party in all my life. Why now?” They left soon, and Campolo asked Harry, the
man behind the counter, “Do they come here every night?”
“Yes,” he replied. “I know them well. That’s Agnes who’s having the
birthday. Why do you ask?”
“Well,” said his customer, “what do you say we have a birthday party
right here tomorrow night?” Harry smiled and called his wife out from the
kitchen to tell her. Campolo told them he’d be back at 2:30 the next morning
with a cake and decorations. “No,” said Harry. “We’ll make the cake.”
By the next night the word was out on the street, and at 3:15 a.m. the
diner was packed with street people and prostitutes. Campolo had strung up
crepe paper and a big sign that read Happy Birthday, Agnes. When she walked
in, everyone shouted. She was so surprised her knees buckled, and someone had
to help her to her seat. Her eyes started to fill, and when they brought in
the cake, Agnes broke into sobs. She said she couldn’t blow out the candles,
and someone else did it for her. Agnes couldn’t take her eyes off the cake.
“Before we cut it, can I take it home for a little while? I just live down
the street.” As the door closed behind Agnes, a deep silence fell over the
diner. Campolo broke it by saying, “What do you say we pray for Agnes?” He
prayed for her life to change, for God to be good to her, and for her
salvation. After he finished, Harry said, “You didn’t tell me you were a
preacher. What church do you belong to?” Campolo didn’t answer right away.
After a moment, he said, “I belong to the church that throws birthday parties
for prostitutes at 3:30 in the morning.” The man sneered, “No, you don’t.
There’s no church like that. If there was, I’d join it.”
You just can’t beat living
, a friend of sinners, shared _his_ faith.
– From William L. Turner, _Anytime, Anywhere: Sharing Faith Jesus Style_,
pp. 54-56

Course Description and Objectives
This course will explore the biblical and theological basis for
evangelism in post-modern America. It will review the history of evangelistic
efforts, consider new ways of inviting un-churched people into faith
communities, and address practical issues that arise from sharing Christ in
“the company of strangers.”
Through this course, participants will affirm evangelism in its various
forms as a central Christian praxis and explore the new contexts and methods
for effective evangelism.
Through our 9 sessions together, participants will:
1. become better equipped with tools of socio-cultural “exegesis,”
2. become better acquainted with a diversity of ministry styles, particularly
congregations within socially “marginalized” contexts.
3. consider various ministry possibilities or models within the rapidly
changing North American contexts.

Format and Methodology:
Students are advised to read the required texts prior to the two week
intensive. Class sessions will generally follow seminar and practicum formats
where attention will be given to group discussion and role playing. The
instructor will provide lectures as well.

Required Texts:
William L. Turner, _Anytime, Anywhere: Sharing Faith Jesus Style_ (Judson,
1997)
Patrick R. Keifert, _Welcoming the Stranger : A Public Theology of Worship and
Evangelism _ (Augsburg Fortress, 1992)
Robert C. Linthicum, _Empowering the Poor: Community Organizing among the
City’s ‘Rag, Tag, and Bobtail.’_ (Monrovia, CA.: MARC, 1991)
Walter Klaiber, _Call and Response: Biblical Foundations of a Theology of
Evangelism_ (Abingdon, 1997)
James O. Stallings, _Telling the Story: Evangelism in Black Churches _
(Judson)

The following recommended texts are available in the bookstore:
Rodney Clapp, _A Peculiar People: The Church as Culture in a Post-Christian
Society_ (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press,
Christian _ (Zondervan, 1994)
Ralph W. Neighbor, Jr., _Where Do We Go From Here: A Guidebook for the Cell
Group Church_ (Houston, TX: Touch Publications, 1990)

Course Requirements:
During the two weeks, students will be required to keep a notebook
containing class notes, reflections about reading assignments, and
observations. Written assignments include a short paper on the theology of
evangelism, a proposal for an evangelism program for a congregation, and an
evangelistic sermon.

Grading Policy
This course will employ a point grading system. Work will be evaluated on the
basis of their clarity of focus and ability to comprehensively integrate and
reflect on the materials covered in class. The maximum number of points each
written assignments can be assigned is listed here:

1. Classroom notebook (30 points)
Written or typed. Student notebook must include the following sections: (a)
summaries and reflections on classroom discussion/presentations, (b) summaries
and reflections on assigned textbooks, and (c) reflections on evangelism in
the student’s current context for ministry.
2. Theology of evangelism paper (20 points)
Typed, double-spaced. Between 8-10 pages. This paper should discuss
evangelism within the context of (a) the student’s theological tradition, (b)
a biblical framework, and (c) contemporary proposals for evangelism programs.
3. Evangelistic sermon/presentation (20 points)
Typed, double-spaced. Between 4-5pages. This sermon/presentation should
begin with a brief description of the audience you are addressing, followed by
an evangelistic message addressing an unchurched audience. Presentations can
also take the form of a dialogue, dramatic scenario, video program, etc.
Criteria for evaluation will be clarity of the message, given the audience you
are addressing. Other students in the class will provide critique of your
message.
4. Congregational evangelism program proposal (30 points)
Typed, double-spaced. Between 13-15pages. Scenario: you are proposing a new
evangelism (or chu
gation or parrish. Building on your theology of evangelism, outline a
proposal which will lay the foundation, describe outreach and follow-up
programs, and suggest changes in congregational life/praxis.

The following scale will be used to determine final student grade:

A 100-93 C 76-73
A- 92-90 C- 72-70
B+ 89-87 D+ 69-67
B 86-83 D 66-63
B- 82-80 D- 62-60
C+ 79-77 F 59-0

Schedule

Mon. Jan 12 Introduction: The challenge of Post-modern America.
• What has changed in America in the past twenty-five years?
• The Post-modern dilemma.

Tues. Jan 13 Theological reflection on evangelism in post-modern America.
Read: Walter Klaiber, Call and Response: Biblical Foundations of a Theology
of Evangelism
Read handout: Rodney Clapp, “The Church as Mission and Message: Evangelism
After Constantine” from A Peculiar People: The Church as Culture in a Post-
Christian Society
• Historical perspectives on church outreach.
• A Theology of Evangelism in the Company of Strangers

Wed. Jan 14 Evangelism in social action I: Brian Kane, Interfaith Action
(Guest speaker)
Read: Robert C. Linthicum, Empowering the Poor: Community Organizing among
the City’s ‘Rag, Tag, and Bobtail.’

Thurs. Jan 15 Evangelism in social action II: Prof. Janet Spressart, Roberts
Wesleyan (Guest speaker)

Fri. Jan. 16 New Wine, Old Wineskins?
Read handout: excerpt from Howard A. Snyder, Radical Renewal: The Problem of
Wineskins.
• The Problem of Wineskins: Church Growth Strategies
• Introducing Cell Groups.

Mon. Jan 19 NO CLASS – Martin Luther King’s Birthday

Tues. Jan 20 Evangelism, church, and culture I. [“Theology of Evangelism”
paper due]
Read: Patrick R. Keifert, Welcoming the Stranger : A Public Theology of
Worship and Evangelism
• Evangelism and liturgy.

Wed. Jan 21 Evangelism, church, and culture II.
Read: James O. Stallings, Telling the Story: Evangelism in Black Churches
• Evangelism in cross-cultural and multicultural contexts.

Thur. Jan 22 Personal Evangelism I. (During second hour, students will preach
evangelistic
er, Anytime, Anywhere: Sharing Faith Jesus Style
• “All things to all people”: On being “seeker” sensitive. [View/critique “On
Being a Contagious Christian” video workshop training program.]

Fri. Jan. 23 Personal Evangelism II. (During second hour, students will
preach evangelistic sermons/presentations.)
• Evangelism as spiritual formation and personal call.

Mon. Jan. 26 No class: Turn in (1) notebooks and (2) congregational evangelism
program proposal.

Recommended Reading
Joseph C. Aldrich, _Life-Style Evangelism: Crossing Traditional Boundaries to
Reach the Unbelieving World_ (Portland, OR: Multnomah Press, 1981)
Joseph C. Aldrich, _Gentle Presuasion: Creative Ways to Introduce Your Friends
to Christ _ (Portland, OR: Multnomah Press, 1981)
Nancy T. Ammerman, _Congregation and Community _(Rutgers University Press,
1997)
Robert & Julia Banks, _The Church Comes Home _(Hendrickson, 1997)
Kenneth Uyeda Fong, _Insights for Growing Asian-American Ministries: How to
reach the increasing number of “Americanized” Asian Americans for Christ
_(Rosemead, CA: EverGrowing Publications, 1990)
J. Richard Middleton and Brian Walsh, _Truth is Stranger Than It Used to Be_
(InterVarsity Press, 1994)
Rebecca Manley Pippert, _Out of the Saltshaker and Into the World: Evangelism
as a Way of Life _(Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1979)
Tex Sample, _U.S. Lifestyles and Mainline Churches: A Key to Reaching People
in the 90s _(Louisville: Westminster/John Knox, 1990)
Howard A. Snyder, _Radical Renewal: The Problem of Wineskins Today _(Houston:
Touch, 1996)
David Watson, _I Believe in Evangelism _(Eerdmans, 1976)
William Dryness, _Christian Apologetics in a World Community _(Downers Grove:
InterVarsity Press, 1983)

——————————

From: TSTseng
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:35:49 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Welfare Reform and the Churches conference

CACers:

FYI, Tim Tseng

============================

Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:34:32 -0500
From: Timothy Hall
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: Welfare Reform and the Churches

From: Albert_Beck@BAYLOR.EDU

Announcement:

“WELFARE REFORM AND THE CHURCHES”
A Symposium Sponsored by the Center for Constitutional Studies of the J.M.
Dawson Institute of Church-State Studies, Baylor University, 6-7 April 1998.

This symposium will probe the church-state and social justice implications of
the 1996 Welfare Reform Act and its “Charitable Choice” provision.

For more information, contact Barry_Hankins@baylor.edu, or call the Dawson
Institute at (254) 710-1510.

********
Presenters and Panel Participants:

> ALLEN BROWNSTEIN, Professor of Law, University of California, Davis
“Constitutional Constraints on Charitable Choice: The Impact of ‘Neutral’
Funding Requirements on LIberty, Equality, and Free Speech Guarantees”

> STANLEY CARLSON-THIES, Center for Public Justice
“Churches Cooperating With Public Welfare: Promises and Pitfalls”

> DEREK DAVIS, J. M. Dawson Institute of Church-State Studies, Baylor
University
“First Things First: Thoughts on the Constitutionality of Charitable
Choice”

> MELISSA ROGERS, Baptist Joint Committee
“The Wrong Way to Do Right: Charitable Choice and the Churches”

> JULIE SEGAL, Americans United for Separation of Church and State
“‘A Holy Mistaken Zeal’: The Legislative History and Future of Charitable
Choice”

> RON SIDER & HEIDI UNRUH, Evangelicals for Social Action
“An (Ana)Baptist Theological Perspective on Church-State Partnership:
Evaluating Charitable Choice.”

> DON WILLETT, Special Projects, Governor’s Office
“Unleashing the Best of Texas: Governor Bush’s Efforts to Assist Faith-
Based Charities”

> KEYNOTE ADDRESS:
JIM WALLIS, Sojourers and Call to Renewal
“Welfare Reform and the Issue of Social Justice”

– ————————————————————
Rev. Dr. Timothy Tseng
Sallie Knowles Crozer Assistant Professor of American Religious History
Colgate-Rochester Divinity School
1100 South Goodman Street
Rochester, NY 14620
OFF: (716) 271-1320, ext. 260
FAX: (716) 271-8013
Email: tstseng@aol.com; ttseng@crds.edu
http://www.crds.edu/
– ————————————————————

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:28:56 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Fwd: Most Women Believe Abortion Has Hurt Relationships…

Dear CACers:

FYI. In commemoration of the 25th Anniversay of Roe v. Wade…

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————-
Most Women Believe Abortion Has Hurt Relationships Between Men and Women,
Poll
Finds

Family Research Council Unveils Poll Showing Abortion’s Impact on
Relationships, Emotional Health, and Careers

WASHINGTON, Jan. 20 /PRNewswire/ — “Abortion rights activists, like
Betty
Friedan, promised the country that abortion would make women whole, but
four
out of five people say abortion has emotionally torn women to pieces,”
Family
Research Council Policy Analyst Gracie S. Hsu said Tuesday. “The damage
is
not limited to emotional consequences; a majority of Americans believe
that
abortion-on-demand has hurt relationships between men and women, driving
the
two apart. In addition, 70 percent of them say legalized abortion is not
necessary to help women pursue educational and career goals. Americans
are
saying that the promises of pro-abortionists were lies, and that now
Americans
need serious healing.”

Miss Hsu spoke Tuesday at a news conference held at the Family Research
Council to unveil polling data on the social and emotional impact of
abortion.
A survey of 1,000 adults, conducted by Wirthlin Worldwide, found the
following:

— Most adults (53%) believe that abortion has hindered the
relationships

between men and women. 58 percent of women and 48 percent of men agree.

– — Most Americans (78%) strongly agree that women who have had abortions

experience emotional trauma, such as grief and regret.

– — Most Americans (70%) believe that legal abortion is not necessary for

women to pursue various educational and career goals.

Hsu said that the poll’s results “challenge pro-abortionists’ claims that
abortion helps women. The untold story of abortion is the tragic social
and
emotional damage it causes women.”

Post-abortion grief is not limited to women. Bob Kirk, from Boulder, CO,
told
his story Tuesday about the emotional trauma and drug addiction that
followed
his experience with abortion. Olivia Gans, Director of American Victims
of
Abortion, also spoke about her post-abortion experience, which included
anxiety attacks, depression, and serious dysfunctional behavior. Both
have
undergone counseling and been involved as post-abortion counselors. Vicki
Thorn, founder of Project Rachel, a post-abortion counseling network
within
the Catholic Church, described the model she created for post-abortion
healing. Thorn also directs the National Office of Post-Abortion
Reconciliation & Healing (1-800-5WE-CARE), a national referral network
for men
and women seeking healing.

– ——— End forwarded message ———-

——————————

From: jtc10@juno.com (J Chang)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:32:15 -0500
Subject: CAC_Mail: Fwd: Most Americans Say Abortion Should Be Banned After Fetal…

Dear CACers:

FYI. More polling data that probably won’t be found in the news.

In Him,
J. Chang
– ————-
Most Americans Say Abortion Should Be Banned After Fetal Brainwaves Are
Detected, Poll Finds

Bauer Says ‘Pulse Of The Nation Reads Americans Are More Pro-Life’

WASHINGTON, Jan. 21 /PRNewswire/ — “It’s true. Americans are becoming
increasingly pro-life and are strongly opposed to later-term abortions,”
Family Research Council President Gary Bauer said Wednesday. “Elected
officials must make progress in banning abortion by standing with the
overwhelming majority of Americans who oppose partial-birth abortion and
later-term abortions.”

Bauer spoke Wednesday at a news conference held at the Family Research
Council
where polling data were released and pro-life strategy discussed. Former
Pennsylvania Gov. Robert Casey, his son Chris Casey, and Marjorie
Dannenfelser, Chairman of the Board of the pro-life political action
committee
the Susan B. Anthony List, joined Bauer in discussing the pro-life shift
in
public opinion and the future of the pro-life movement.

The January 1998 Wirthlin poll commissioned by FRC found:

— Most Americans believe that abortion should not be permitted after

signs of life can be detected. Specifically, 61 percent disagree that

“abortion should be permitted after fetal brainwaves are detected,” and
58

percent agree that “abortion should not be permitted after the fetal

heartbeat has begun.” (Note: Fetal brainwaves can be detected as early as

the sixth week of pregnancy, and fetal heartbeat usually begins between

days 18 and 21.)

— American attitudes toward abortion have become increasingly
pro-life.

Most Americans (57 percent) describe their own personal position on

abortion as pro-life. Only 21 percent believe that abortion should be

legal for any reason during the first three months of pregnancy. Only 10

percent believe abortion should be legal for any reason during the first

six months of pregnancy, and only 9 percent feel abortion should be legal

at any time during pregnancy and for any reason.

– — Women are more pro-life than men — a trend over the past decade.

Sixty-one percent of women hold a pro-life position compared to 53
percent

of men. Women under age 34 and over 55 are more pro-life than middle-aged

women.

“In the last quarter of a century, more than 35 million lives have been
sacrificed needlessly,” Bauer said. “It is a standing rebuke to a nation
conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that we are all
created
equal. The shift in public opinion and behavior is heartening. It shows
Americans will continue to chip away at Roe until it is reversed.”

– ——— End forwarded message ———-

——————————

From: OHBRUDDER
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:49:24 -0600
Subject: CAC_Mail: FREE book

To all CACer, contributors and lurkers,

I will send absolutely FREE at my expense a paperback copy of
“POWER THROUGH PRAYER” by E.M Bounds to any of you
for your promise to read it. Just email me your mailing address.

THERE IS NO CATCH!
You will not be put on any mailing list.
This is not a loss-leader to get you to buy something else.
There will be no book report required!
You don’t even have to agree with the content.

I’m convinced that what ABCs and all people need is a
relationship with God and NOT a religion: a living, vital,
dynamic, intimate relationship with God . . .not a dead, ritualistic,
legalistic, moralistic religion, even one called Christianity.
I know none of us knowingly propagate the latter, but that is all
we propagate if we, as believers and ministers, don’t have that
relationship with God. Life begat life.

Some time ago, Benjamin Wong discussed about prayer and
power and it led me to dust off this book on power thru prayer
from my library . . . it was a very thin book! So there was
little resistance on my part to begin reading it. I know I read it
a long time ago but this time I was convicted.

I had a prayer life. In various stages of my life and in varying
degrees and frequencies of involvement: prayer meetings,
personal devotions, prayers of “HELP!” and prayers of need,
prayers of worship and praise and thanksgiving, pulpit prayers,
meal prayers, and interactive prayers throughout the day
inquiring of the mind of Christ while working, driving, etc.

But the Lord has convicted me personally to enter the closet
ministry . . . not out of guilt but out of need and hunger. So
for all of us who are God seekers, ministers of the gospel,
servants of the Lord on CAC, I thought I’d contribute and
share what I know is an answer for ministry success in this
book. Yours for the asking.

CHARLES SPURGEON says: “Of course, the preacher is above
all others distinguished as a man of prayer. He prays as an
ordinary Christian, else he were a hypocrite. He prays more
than ordinary Christians, else he were disqualified for the
office he has undertaken. If you as ministers are not very
prayerful, you are to be pitied. If you become lax in sacred
devotion, not only will you need to be pitied but your people
also, and the day cometh in which you shall be ashamed
and confounded. All our libraries and studies are emptiness
compared with our closets.”

E.M. BOUNDS says: “In the school of prayer only can the
heart learn to preach. No learning can make up for the
failure to pray. No earnestness, no diligence, no study,
no gifts will supply its lack. . . .He will never talk well
and with real success to men for God who has not learned
well how to talk to God for men. More than this, prayerless
words in the pulpit and out of it are deadening words.”

respectfully, prayerfully,

bill leong

——————————

From: TSTseng
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:12:48 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Matter of life and death for 1988 Sciencite – marrow donor n

Dear CACers:

The following is not a hoax. Please pass the information along and be in
prayer for Cindy and others is similar circumstances. – Tim

=============================

Sorry to impose, but a woman I went to school with is in desperate
need of a bone marrow transplant. Without this transplant, she has
two months to live. Please consider getting a blood test to
determine if you can help Cindy. And please pass the word,
especially within the Asian community.

Thank you.

ADDITIONAL TESTING SITES

January 23 Union Plaza Nursing Home 4pm-8pm (Friday)
33-23 Union St, Queens

January 24 Taiwan Center 10am-4pm (Saturday)
137-44 Northern Boulevard, Queens

January 25 Union Plaza Nursing Home 10am-4pm (Sunday)
33-23 Union St, Queens

Dear [Bronx High School, NYC] Alumni,

Cindy Moy is a fellow Sciencite of the 1988 graduating class. She later
graduated from NYU in 1992 and went on to become a practicing attorney in New
York.

Cindy has leukemia. She has about two months to live, and needs a bone marrow

transplant within that time. While Cindy is on a hospital bed at
Sloan-Kettering, her family and friends have mounted a feverish search for a
matching marrow donor. Though not exclusively, a matching donor will most
likely be found within the Asian community. Despite having used various
sources and channels to spread the word, and setting up testing and
registration centers throughout parts of Asia and the United States, efforts
have yielded no match as of yet. The obstacles are made greater due to
cultural biases. Because of ancient buddhist taboos, very few Asians get
tested. Buddhists believe that giving up a part of the body makes one
incomplete. The media reported the tragic story of a young Asian leukemia
patient who died in New York after his six brothers and sisters refused to be
tested. Cindy’s family is not standing around. They have worked tirelessly
and valiantly to find a life-saver for Cindy. But they need even more help.

As with other similar donation programs, there will be doubts and queries
about
the risks of marrow testing and donation. Perhaps other Sciencites who are
medical doctors could speak to this more authoritatively. The newspaper
reports that bone marrow testing is essentially a blood test, and that a
typical bone marrow transplant procedure requires only about 2-3% of the
donor’s marrow. [I strongly urge those who have questions to call the New
York
Blood Center or the Cammy Lee Leukemia Foundation, or to ask a physician to
confirm or disconfirm the accuracy of this information.]

Cindy is in desperate straits. Every second that ticks away is one less
chance
to find a matching donor. Cindy’s family — and in particular, her sister,
Linda Moy, also a Science graduate (1986), and a medical doctor — can only
hope
that Cindy will persevere and that others will be concerned enough to take
action. Please take the time to be tested and help spread the life-saving
message.

BOND MARROW REGISTRATION DRIVES:

January 14: The New York Blood Center, 310 E. 60th St, between 4pm-8pm

January 17-18: The Chinese Benevolent Association, 60 Mott Street (between
Canal and Bayard), 10am-4pm

January 21: New York University

January 23-24: Flushing (places to be announced – more information will be
forthcoming)

If you cannot make any of these dates:
Call the New York Blood Center (1-800-NYBLOOD ext.2 or 212-570-3210) to make
an
appointment to register.
Or call the Cammy Lee Leukemia Foundation (1-800-77CAMMY or 212-460-5983) for
information on upcoming drives.

OTHER WAYS TO HELP:

1) Learn more about Cindy’s condition and ways to help her cause by emailing
cindymoy@aol.com. A close friend, Todd, who reads, relays, and answers her
email will be able to tell you more about Cindy’s situation and suggest other
ways to help.

2) Take the time out to become more informed about bone marrow registration,
testing and donation by calling either of the above-named agencies.

3) Get tested and registered, not only for Cindy’s sake, but for the sake of
all those in desperate need of a bone marrow donor.

Thank you all very much,
Dave Au,
Class of 1987

——————————

From: TSTseng
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:09:52 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Fwd: AAASCommunity: AAASPosts: IN GOD’S IMAGE 16:4 (1997) is here!

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

– –part0_885712195_boundary

CACers:

FYI, Tim

– –part0_885712195_boundary
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 22:22:26 -0500
To: aarcsposts@socrates.berkeley.edu, aaasposts@uclink4.berkeley.edu
From: rab60@columbia.edu (Rachel A. R. Bundang)
Subject: AAASCommunity: AAASPosts: IN GOD’S IMAGE 16:4 (1997) is here!

==================================================================
* This is email from the News & Announcements list (AAASPosts) of
* the Email Network of the Association for Asian American Studies.
– —————————————————————–
* For more information about the list and the AAAS Email Network,
* email a request to .
– —————————————————————–
* For information about AAAS membership, email a request to
* our national office at .
==================================================================
[with apologies for duplicate postings]

IN GOD’S IMAGE, v.16:no.4 (1997) has just been published, and it looks
fabulous!

This issue is the proceedings of the 11th annual meeting of Asian and Asian
American Women in Theology and Ministry (AAAWTM), held at the Episcopal
Divinity School in Cambridge, MA in March 1996. The theme for that year’s
session was “Responding to Our Call: Asian & Asian American Women of Faith
Serving Our Communities.”

Articles are drawn from conference presentations by Ranjini Rebera, Rita
Nakashima Brock, Wenh-In Ng, Aruna Alexander, and other A/PI women from the
US and Canada who study/teach theology and religion and/or serve as
ministers.

I served first as coordinator for the conference that year, then as guest
editor of this issue (with invaluable assistance from Ranjini Rebera). The
journal is published by the Asian Women’s Resource Center (AWRC) for
Culture and Theology in Kuala Lumpur.

Please support A/PI women who are breaking new ground in this field and
bring attention to the work they do in our communities every day, both here
+ abroad. You can request this publication from your library, or contact
AWRC directly:

YONG Ting Jin, Coordinator
Asian Women’s Resource Center for Culture and Theology
79, Lorong Anggor, Taman Shanghai
58100 Kuala Lumpur, MALAYSIA
FAX: 603.7844227
TEL: 603.7849734
E-MAIL: tingjin@pc.jaring.my

– —–

Just as a further plug for AAAWTM (which has since been renamed PANAAWTM),
please contact me if you’d like further info about the organization in
general.

Also, SAVE THE DATE: For more info about our upcoming annual conference
(March 13-15, 1998 in Toronto, w/ an additional special session for Ph.D.
students), please contact Grace Kim at .

Thanks.

…………………………………….
Rachel A. R. Bundang
Constructive Theologies, Praxis, & Ethics
Union Theological Seminary
rbundang@alumni.princeton.edu
…………………………………….

================================================================
* AAASCommunity, the Discussion & News list of the
* Email Network of the Association for Asian American Studies
– —————————————————————
* Coordinator:
================================================================

– –part0_885712195_boundary–

——————————

From: JWongCDI@aol.com
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:55:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: re: CAC_Mail: FREE book

In Bill’s gracious offer of a free book he wrote:
>>
I’m convinced that what ABCs and all people need is a

relationship with God and NOT a religion: a living, vital,

dynamic, intimate relationship with God . . .not a dead, ritualistic,

legalistic, moralistic religion, even one called Christianity.

I know none of us knowingly propagate the latter, but that is all

we propagate if we, as believers and ministers, don’t have that

relationship with God. Life begat life.
>>

Thanks for reminding us and affirming such a vital aspect of our faith. I am
reminded of a couple of verses in John’s Gospel, which I’ve taken to heart:

“John 14:21 “He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves
Me; and he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him, and
will disclose Myself to him.”
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep
My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our
abode with him.”

Joe Wong (in Chicago)

——————————

From: ohbrudder
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:00:21 -0800
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Anatomy of an ABC Body of Christ

James Wong wrote:
>
> What are some major issues confronting ABCs that the church needs to
> address?
>
> I’ve been trying hard on this one but still couldn’t come up with anything
> major that can be considered distinctly ABC. Anyone wanna try?
>

May I try? I was hoping someone else would. I think this question
might
be better answered this way:
Why should I, an ABC, go to an ABC church?
– —for most of the same reasons blacks go to black churches. . .birds
of
a feather flock together . . . it feels natural, comfortable.
– —to find or affirm my identity. . .”I’m not alone”. . .”Someone
understands.”
– —it facilitates the possibility of maximum communication of spiritual,
abstract truths . . .same language, background, problems,etc . . .
spiritual values may get applied in familiar contexts by people
who are like myself. . .
– —I will find Jesus Christ there (what issue or problem can I have for
which
Christ does not have the answer?) In a manner of speaking, Christ is
incarnated as an ABC instead of a Jew in an ABC body of Christ.
. . . I will find: eternal life . . .abundant life . . .
purpose for living . . .peace that the world cannot give . . .
joy unspeakable . . . forgiveness for sins . . .mercies new every
morning . . .
unconditional love and acceptance. . .help and comfort in times of
need . . .
hope for tomorrow . . .values and morals based on absolute, eternal
truths
. . .a personal relationship with the Almighty . . .divine guidance .
.. .
no fear of evil . . . no fear of death . . . so much blessings I have
no room
to contain them . . .deliverance from the bondages of the devil . . .
new songs in my heart . . .power to overcome . . .wisdom for myself
and
to give to others . . .rest from my burdens . . .treasures in heaven
.. . .

Obviously, I should be able to find all of the above in any church, but
for
me I hope any ABC and myself can find it in any ABC church. If an ABC
church
can provide all of the above, what other issue as an ABC would I need
addressed?

bill leong

——————————

From: “Ronald Lee”
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:09:40 -0800
Subject: CAC_Mail: Pastoral Search

To all,

Our sister church is searching for a new pastor. All interested parties
should email to RRNC@juno.com, or send your information to the address
listed below.

River Ridge Neighborhood Church
Mailing address:
5050 Laguna Boulevard
Suite 112, Mail Box 508
Elk Grove, CA 95758
January 26, 1998

To: Interested Individuals

From: Pastoral Search Committee
Contact Person: Stella Tam

SUBJECT: POSITION FOR FULL-TIME PASTOR

A full-time position for pastor is available at River Ridge Neighborhood
Church (RRNC) in Laguna/Elk Grove, south of Sacramento. RRNC is a
multi-ethnic, non-denominational evangelical Christian church. This is a
young church of three years consisting primarily of young adults and
families. Its parent church is Chinese Grace Bible Church of Sacramento.

Preferred qualifications for candidates would include:

1. Evangelical in faith,
2. Licensed or ordained minister preferred
3. Man of God
4. Seminary graduate
5. Master’s degree in divinity or equivalent recommended
6. Three years or more in pastoral experience
7. Experience working with a young emerging church

We at RRNC are seeking God’s will in revealing the right person to provide
godly and effective pastoral leadership here. If you would like to fill out
an application, please write us or email us at RRNC@juno.com for an
application package.

> > > > > > +++ < < < < < > > > > > +++ < < < < < <

——————————

From: TSTseng
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:51:26 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Fwd: AAASCommunity: New Issue of Amerasia Journal Released

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

– –part0_885934286_boundary
Content-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

FYI, Tim

– –part0_885934286_boundary

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
January 27, 1998

New Issue of “Amerasia Journal” Explores Lives of Prewar Nisei in Japan,
China, and Russia. Includes Annual Research Bibliography of 2,000 Works in
Asian American Studies

“Beyond National Boundaries: The Complexity of Japanese-American
History” is the theme of the newly-published issue of “Amerasia Journal,”
research publication from the UCLA Asian American Studies Center.

The issue explores the lives of Japanese Americans who found
themselves — willingly or not — living in Japan, China and Russia before
World War II.

According to UCLA historian Yuji Ichioka, who served as guest editor
for the issue, approximately 18,000 Nisei lived in Japan in the early
1930s, and several thousand in China, mainly Manchuria.

Ichioka describes the decades of the 1930s and 1940s as “turbulent
years” in world history and for Japanese Americans in particular. “In Asia
these two decades witnessed the rise of Japanese militarism and
expansionism onto the Asian continent that led inexorably to the
Sino-Japanese War and eventually to the Pacific War,” he states.

According to Ichioka, for Japanese Americans in Japan and Asia during
that period, the turbulent events altered the course of their lives,
“giving them a distinctly different experience from that of their Nisei
counterparts living within the confines of the United States.”

In a research article in the issue, Ichioka explores the meaning of
loyalty in Japanese American history by examining the life of Kazumaro
Buddy Uno, a Nisei who was on the side of Japan during the Pacific War.
From 1940 to 1945, Uno was attached to the Press Bureau of the Japanese
Imperial Army as a civilian journalist, first in Shanghai, later in Tokyo,
and lastly in Manila. Because of his pro-Japan reporting before Pearl
Harbor and his wartime work for the Japanese Army, Uno became and remains a
controversial figure.

Other articles focus on the role of Nisei in Japan and Asia before and
during World War II. John J. Stephan examines the special attraction and
meaning Manchuria had for Japanese Americans who went there in the 1930s.
Eriko Yamamoto presents the life of Miya Sannomiya, a Nisei woman employed
in Tokyo by a quasi-government agency that disseminated information about
Japan in western languages. Igor Saveliev focuses on the historical
question of why Japanese laborers, who immigrated in large numbers to North
and South America, did not do so to nearby Russia.

Five autobiographical essays by Sen Nishiyama, Frank Hirata, Mary
Tomita, Nobuyo Yamane and Kay Tateishi round out the issue.

Also featured is the annual Amerasia Journal research bibliography of
articles relating to Asian Pacific Americans. The bibliography, compiled by
Judy Soohoo of the UCLA Asian American Studies Library, consists of more
than 2,000 citations.

The issue is available for $12 (plus $3 postage) from the UCLA Asian
American Studies Center, 3230 Campbell Hall, Box 951546, Los Angeles, CA
90095-1546; tel. (310) 825-2968. E-mail at dmar@ucla.edu. Annual
subscriptions of 3 issues per year are also available. Individuals, $28;
institutions, $40.

Amerasia Journal is the oldest interdisciplinary publication in Asian
American Studies, founded in 1971.

Don Nakanishi
Director and Professor
UCLA Asian American Studies Center
3230 Campbell Hall
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1546
phone: 310.825.2974
fax: 310.206.9844
e-mail: dtn@ucla.edu
web site for Center: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/aasc

================================================================
* AAASCommunity, the Discussion & News list of the
* Email Network of the Association for Asian American Studies
– —————————————————————
* Coordinator:
================================================================

——————————

From: Rev Cow
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:54:20 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Looking for Johnson Chiu

Hello,

Does anyone know where I might be able to locate Johnson Chiu?

He served at Cumberland (SF), EFC (LA), UCCCHH (Hacienda Hts), then a
church in San Jose.

I have a church member who feel indebted to Johnson’s guidance when
Johnson served as a high school advisor. This member would like to
invite Johnson to his wedding.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

For the harvest,
Ted

P.S. I haven’t forgotten some of your questions re the Christmas Mailer
and other seeker issues. Please forgive me for not replying sooner…I
hope to respond soon.

Rev. Ted Kau
Harvest San Gabriel Valley

Faith like Job’s cannot be shaken because it is the result of having been
shaken.
– –Abraham Heschel

——————————

From: ben_mel@juno.com (Benjamin C Wong)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:19:49 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Free book

Wow! great offer!

Thanks Bill. When I went to seminary, during the student orientation of
my first semester, the student body leaders gave to each freshman a copy
of this book, “Power Thru Prayer” by E. M. Bounds. If anyone has not
read this, what a great opportunity to do so.

Again, Thanks Bill !!!

Ben

_____________________________________________________________________
You don’t need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

——————————

From: Sze-kar Wan
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:39:59 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Work and Word–Lausanne

A belated thank you, Greg, for posting the relevant portion of the
Lausanne Statement. I haven’t had a chance to study it carefully, but a
quick read tells me that it’s an interesging statement.

Meanwhile, happy Chinese New Year to all fellow-CACers.

Warmly,
Sze-kar

——————————

From: Rev Cow
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:58:04 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Johnson Chiu

Dear CAC’ers,

Y’all are a great bunch of people. Thank you for the kind help in
locating Johnson Chiu’s information. By last count I’ve received about
ten responses volunteering different tidbits of Johnson’s whereabouts.

So on behalf of Michael Wang, who is looking for Johnson, thank you,
thank you, thank you.

May we continue to pray His kingdom come,
Ted

Rev. Ted Kau
Harvest San Gabriel Valley

Surely the preacher’s greatest sin is to put people to sleep with the
greatest story ever told.
– –Bruce W. Thielemann

——————————

From: The Yees
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:39:32 +0000
Subject: CAC_Mail: Iris Chang

Hi All –

Just back from Iris Chang’s reading at the Oakland
Barnes & Noble, featuring her new book, _The Rape of
Nanking_. Probably 125 folks there SRO, majority white,
c. 1/4 Asian (all ages), a sprinkling of blacks. She
said she’d recieved letters about the book castigating
her for airing Japanese dirty laundry, and thus (in
the letter writer’s mind) dragging down all Asians in
the eyes of others. Her main theme was that Japan must
still be called to accountability (apologies, reparations)
for this atrocity: the terrorization, rape, torture, and
slaughter of 300k Chinese civilians.

O.K. CACers, would you ever touch this one at church?
A mostly Chinese-American church? Mostly Japanese-American?
One with a mix of both? What would you say?

Russell Yee
Oakland

——————————

From: ben_mel@juno.com (Benjamin C Wong)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:42:44 EST
Subject: CAC_Mail: Forgiving and Forgetting

The grace of God be to each of you:

Quite some time ago Fenggang wrote,

“A theological question to my Christian pastors on CAC: what is the
difference between Christian forgiveness and historical amnesia?”

I trust this gives some understanding for the subject.

Matt. 18:23 suggest that forgiveness is like “settling an account.” When
I am forgiven my account is wiped clean of that debt. It is no longer
charged to my account. I am no longer held to it. When I forget my
wife’s birthday and go to a football game. She will express her great
disappointment. I will sincerely apologize and ask her forgiveness. If
/ since she forgives me, my account should be clean. Next year I do the
same thing. And when I apologize to her, she says, “No, because this is
the second time you’ve done it.” Then she has not really forgiven me for
the first time since it is still on my account. True forgiveness removes
it from my account.

To forgive does not necessarily mean that it is forgotten. Sometime it
is not easily forgotten, but we are not to hold it against them as if the
debt is still there.

Since forgiveness is to settle the account, just consider what it would
mean in the light of Lk. 17:4, “And if he sins against you seven times a
day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall
forgive him.” WOW!!!!

Bring this together with His command to love one another and we are a
long way to unity.

How about others expanding our understanding on this?

Ben

_____________________________________________________________________
You don’t need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

——————————

From: Sze-kar Wan
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:54:48 -0500
Subject: Re: CAC_Mail: Forgiving and Forgetting

Benjamin C Wong wrote:
> How about others expanding our understanding on this?
>

I posted a note on the topic on 27 Dec 97 (“Forgiveness”) in response to
Fenggang and Hai-tao. Write me privately if you can’t find it in the
archives.

Sze-kar

——————————

— End —

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